Probable Cause and Traffic Stops

[justalayman]

Given the ticket already delivered by the time the dog arrived the Rodriguez decision clearly states that additional cause is required to continue the detention. I’m hard pressed to see reasonable suspicion base on the facts stated.

It wasn’t the drivers car: if that was a concern ticket should not have been issued until this concern was settled. It is obvious this was not a concern of the police.


The passenger had prior arrests; and?? Does that provide reasonable suspicion for the rest of their lives? Unless the officer can articulate some furtive activity that in combination with the passengers history gave rise to reasonable suspicion, I’m not seeing RS.


Reasonable suspicion, while not overly difficult to articulate in many sidtuations, none the less must be articulable when asked of the officer. I would argue that the mere history of prior asrrests is not in itself adequate to create reasonable suspicion.



To whomever suggested the passenger couldn’t have hidden the contraband without the op noticing it; much of what is used is reasonably concealed in a closed hand and unless you expect the passenger to be doing the “hey- hey, ho-ho” wave while riding down the street, their hand will be in a position to be able to easily hide the contraband between the seats without being noticed by the driver.

 

[Taxing Matters]

It wasn’t the drivers car: if that was a concern ticket should not have been issued until this concern was settled. It is obvious this was not a concern of the police.

I fail to see the logic in that. When the citation is ready for the malfunctioning tail light, why should it not be served even if there are other things that officers may still legitmately investigate? There is no rule that says that all violations that cops wish to charge must be served at the same time after all. And what purpose would delaying the citation serve? What good would delaying the citation for broken lamp serve to deal with concerns about the ownership of the car? The cops cannot delay serving the citation as their cover for extending the stop. So once they had everything for the citation they need to serve it and let the driver go — unless they already have the reasonable suspicion needed to continue investigating. And if they have that, they may continue that investigation even though one citation as already been served.

 

[quincy]

... much of what is used is reasonably concealed in a closed hand and unless you expect the passenger to be doing the “hey- hey, ho-ho” wave while riding down the street, their hand will be in a position to be able to easily hide the contraband between the seats without being noticed by the driver.

Several syringes and pounds of meth? That's a big hand.

 

[justalayman]

Several syringes and pounds of meth? That's a big hand.

I don’t think me jumping on several pounds of meth (and I’m no little guy) could get it to fit in between the seats.

But syringes can be quite small. A 50cc syringe is thinner than a number 2 pencil and less than half as long. (You probably don’t want to ask how I know. I might actuslly tell you and I think you probably couldn’t handle it. Most people issue a quite distinct “EEEWWWWW”. Or “ oh hell no”)

I think there is some confusion within this thread.

 

[quincy]

I don’t think me jumping on several pounds of meth (and I’m no little guy) could get it to fit in between the seats.

But syringes can be quite small. A 50cc syringe is thinner than a number 2 pencil and less than half as long. (You probably don’t want to ask how I know. I might actuslly tell you and I think you probably couldn’t handle it. Most people issue a quite distinct “EEEWWWWW”. Or “ oh hell no”)

I think there is some confusion within this thread.

I am actually quite content having you keep your personal experience with syringes to yourself.

I agree there is some confusion in this thread.

What seems necessary is for wickitiwack to have an attorney assist him with his defense - and to say nothing about his arrest and charges to anyone BUT his attorney.

 

[wickitiwack01]

Umm it was my mothers car, it was only 2 syringes that apparently had meth in them and not pounds of meth. What i said was my case was similar to the other case except there was not pounds of meth....and I assume the entire time I was outside and behind the vehicle talking to the cop and receiving my warning citation or after when i was sitting on the curb in front of the car, which the passenger was alone and unsupervised for all of that, she must have had a great opportunity to shtash it between the seats....and btw....during the stop one cop said "you seem to have your head on your shoulders and be pretty responsible " wondering why I would have this girl with me and the arresting officer tokd me he did not believe it was mine.......I think this was all about her and he just dragged me into it. One more thing. This is not my first time to get in trouble. Actually thats what makes me so angry. All anyone seems to care about is money. I owned a store, I was not even present at when a young female was arrested. Her husband sent police there as she was wanted the police walked in saw her and she ran into the back of my store and hid in a closet. They found her pulled her out and found marijuana and meth on her and in the closet. I came in the door about ten minutes later and found out what happened as she was being arrested. I consented to a search and they didnt find anything else but 3 months later i was tokd u had a warrant. I paid a lawyer good money he said hw could get me off and recommended I say no contest and defer a sentence because "if anyone says meth" theyre almost always found guilty on trial. I did 2 years of probation, paying thousands of dollars. It cost me my business and many friends. And those cops KNEW AND THE DA KNEW IT WAS NOT MINE but someone had to pay money. And that was me apparently. And i will not lay down this time and do that and i dont want the risk of acceleraring my deferred sentence. I finished my supervised probation almost 2 years ago. IT sucked. And its never gonna come off my record if i get charged for this. These cops are assholes. I always thought it was on tv they made up shit but i actually witnessed and was the target of a cop lying in court about me to a judge in order to get my literally schitzophrenic ex a VPO AGAINST ME because I dumped her and later when she was stalking me left a note on her door telling her to leave me alone....all I ever do is help people and it makes me an easy target but if this is our justice system Im about ready to go somewhere else... everyone said its no big deal just plead no contest and pay some fines. I didnt have thousands of dollars for something i didn't do. That is a big deal. Im still broke from this.

 

[FlyingRon]

Ownership is not an element of a possession charge.

 

[wickitiwack01]

?

 

[HighwayMan]

You don't have to own it to be charged with possession.

 

[wickitiwack01]

I see... and thats the real problem! They just want money as far as i can tell...someone coukd wake from a coma and get a posession charge without having done a thing wrong....so make them pay, lose out on jobs now, and suffer for being a sucker....and if they cant afford to pay, threaten jail time because they only paid $40 instead of $80 so they could buy their kids xmas presents... im sorry its not your faults but i feel bent over here...im to the point i trust no one already but now i cant even help people without it biting me....

 

[HighwayMan]

...get a posession charge without having done a thing wrong....

Other than being in constructive possession of the syringes and drugs? Maybe giving rides to people you don't know?

The police can tell you anything on the side of the road to make you feel good and to keep you quiet. My guess is they thought you were involved with the girl and drugs somehow.