Proving Parental Alienation

[Buds Gurl]

How is parental alienation usually proven to the judge? For the last few months whenever I have my 5 year old son he makes comments such as "mommy said I only have to stay one day". Then, she showed up at the school a couple of weeks ago when I was picking him up and told him right in front of me "I'm so sorry but you have to go with your dad", that happened twice. Now just last night while I was tucking him in to bed I say "I love you" and he looks sort of surprised and says "really"? I say of course, why do you act so surprised? He tells me that all the way to my house his mom kept telling him that she's so sorry that he has to come to my house, that she doesn't want him to have to come to my house but I make her do it. He says that she actually told him that I don't really love him because I left her when he was a baby and that I left him, too, and sometimes she cries and tells him how I left them both when he was a baby and he doesn't want to make his mommy feel bad!
Obviously I reassured him that I love him very much and tried my best to explain that some mommies and daddies don't live together anymore but it doesn't mean that they don't love their child, and gave him some examples. I cannot believe that she would stoop so low as to try to hurt my son's feelings just to get him to hate me as much as she does! I haven't said anything to her and I'm not sure that I want to because not only do I know she will deny it, I'm afraid she'll be angry with our son for telling me and I don't want him to suffer or be afraid to talk to me.
Truth: My ex (we were never married) is an alcoholic (I was also during our time together) and our relationship was toxic. I did leave her when our son was 4 months old, then she moved and kept him from me by moving, not showing up at planned visits, not returning my calls, I have dozens of old text messages of her just telling me to forget about him cause I'd made my choice when I left. Admittedly, I then hit a low point in my life and lost my job, had a stroke and spend some time recovering. I had to take her to court to get my rights and finally started to have him regularly before he turned two, he's now just turned five.
I'm sure no judge (we're in California) would take away my parental rights and she needs to stop living in the past but I also know that anything my son says is hearsay. What are some ways that I can get the judge to consider that she may actually be trying to alienate my son from me?

 

[Just Blue]

Please add this to your other active thread. Don't start a new thread for every thought/question on the same topic. Thanks.

 

[Zigner]

Please add this to your other active thread. Don't start a new thread for every thought/question on the same topic. Thanks.

The other thread is locked

 

[Just Blue]

The other thread is locked

Yeah...I just saw that. I'm really sorry Bud. I will get the opening post put back here.

 

[stealth2]

Yeah...I just saw that. I'm really sorry Bud. I will get the opening post put back here.

Oh, *nice* job, blue!

 

[Just Blue]

Oh, *nice* job, blue!

I know...I didn't know his other thread had been locked. I called FA and asked that the opening post be returned. perhaps @admin100 or @woody100 haven't gotten the message yet?

Again...I am wicked sorry @Buds Gurl .

 

[not2cleverRed]

You know what?

We don't need the initial post restored. He's just blathering on about how Mom is bad mouthing him and how to prove that in court.

My advice would be he should stop bandying about phrases like "parental alienation" and start focusing on legal, tangible facts.

I imagine judges get sick of refereeing parents who seem to be in a contest to see who can badmouth who the most.

Don't lie. Tell the truth of the situation, to the best of your ability. Don't be a doormat, but just state facts. And by all means, don't put the kid the middle.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Because if she's the one saying "My kid told me..." etc., then that mud is smeared on her own face, not yours.

 

[TheGeekess]

'Buds Gurl'. What an unusual name for a man to choose.

 

[Just Blue]

'Buds Gurl'. What an unusual name for a man to choose.

His GF/New wife created the account for him...if I recall correctly.

 

[Buds Gurl]

Please add this to your other active thread. Don't start a new thread for every thought/question on the same topic. Thanks.

The other thread is closed for comments. I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure how it works, sorry.

 

[Buds Gurl]

His GF/New wife created the account for him...if I recall correctly.

Yes, that's right (my wife). I'd change it but don't know how...

 

[Just Blue]

The other thread is closed for comments. I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure how it works, sorry.

It's my fault. I hadn't realized that your other thread was locked when I posted that. Sorry....

 

[Buds Gurl]

You know what?

We don't need the initial post restored. He's just blathering on about how Mom is bad mouthing him and how to prove that in court.

My advice would be he should stop bandying about phrases like "parental alienation" and start focusing on legal, tangible facts.

I imagine judges get sick of refereeing parents who seem to be in a contest to see who can badmouth who the most.

Don't lie. Tell the truth of the situation, to the best of your ability. Don't be a doormat, but just state facts. And by all means, don't put the kid the middle.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Because if she's the one saying "My kid told me..." etc., then that mud is smeared on her own face, not yours.

I'm not "blathering," just stating facts. I'm using the 'alienation' term because that's what it's called. I realize that you don't know me, you don't know if I'm telling the truth or badmouthing my ex. All I can give you is my word which obviously means nothing to you because, like I said, you do not know me. I was shocked when my son told me this, I am sick for my son to have to listen to this but I'm also sick that I have to tip toe around it because for some reason in family court stating facts can sometimes make you look like the bad guy so this puts me in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

[stealth2]

I'm not "blathering," just stating facts. I'm using the 'alienation' term because that's what it's called. I realize that you don't know me, you don't know if I'm telling the truth or badmouthing my ex. All I can give you is my word which obviously means nothing to you because, like I said, you do not know me. I was shocked when my son told me this, I am sick for my son to have to listen to this but I'm also sick that I have to tip toe around it because for some reason in family court stating facts can sometimes make you look like the bad guy so this puts me in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

You're far from the first parent whose ex has badmouthed them to the child/ren. It's more important to teach the child coping skills and "show the lie" by doing the exact opposite of what the ex claims you do. Without badmouthing the ex back. Really. It's not that hard.

ETA, now that I see the original post is back. Your responses were fine. You counteract her words by showing him that you do love him and always have his best interests in mind. You don't tell him that she kept him away from you, you "had" to take her to court (yeah - that's how it works when you're not married), etc. You tell him that it's okay to love both you and Mommy, and it's not his job to make either of you happy. You don't badmouth Mom in any way/place that he could hear it (i.e. not in front of the other kids, either - he *will* hear about it), etc.

 

[commentator]

You do not need to "get the judge to consider" what she is doing. It is something that judge has heard over and over and over if they've been in family court very long. They won't be unfamiliar with it, or have to see it proven yet again. That's why you should avoid the "parent alienation" term, though that is of course exactly what it sounds like she is doing. But it was used, overused, tried out to garner sympathy and make the user sound psychology-hep since its inception sometime in the 90's and it went out of style very quickly. It creates a slight gag response in everyone who hears it by now.

What I'd suggest, other than fully exercising your visitation to the letter, communicating with your ex only through the parenting message websites so you can't be sucked into any kind of fighting or arguing in front of the child, is that you maybe, in your time, have the child talk with a counselor to help him deal with his feelings and emotions, help him deal with his mother, who sounds like a tough person to be spending all his time with, someone who is manipulative and may have addiction issues. And if you are a recovering alcoholic, with issues of your own, you might profit from working through your issues too. As in, "See, son, this is what grown ups do, they talk to counselors and get help for when they feel angry and sad."

This will also look great to the courts and lay you some groundwork for if the situation changes, if you have reason to do so in the future, you may, at some point, need to take her back to court due to some change in circumstances and go for more or full custody. You need to always, to your son and the courts eventually portray yourself as the 'better man' the one of the parents who makes it a practice to be the adult, to follow the law, to not give in to hating and trashing the other parent, especially not in the presence or hearing of your child. It is better to make a complete liar out of her than to win the arguments.