question about tip based work

[juntjoo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

FL

If you're paid for tip based work, how much non-tip work can you be required to do once there is no longer any tip based work to do?

 

[justalayman]

all of it



12

 

[juntjoo]

you gotta define "all". I assume the sub min wage pay is based on the expectation employee is compensated while earning tips right? surely an employer can't pay an employee less than min if they're not making up for it through tips. or can they simply based on the assumption tips will be earned? we're talking law here. what is it in the law that prevents an employer from the extreme example of scheduling an employee for tip based work while there is no business to provide the tips to meet the min wage requirement and taking advantage of employee's presence to perform work legally worth min wage?

note: with some companies they solve this issue with a split pay system for delivery drivers, where they are paid less than min wage only while driving. so without that system if pay, a line has to be drawn somewhere, of not legally then morally, but I'm crossing my fingers here for the legal answer if it exists.

 

[justalayman]

all : the whole amount, quantity, or extent of


Now you bring in a question about how whether they must pay you differently for different types of work. Is that what your question actually is or did you really want to know how much of the "non-tipped" work they can make you do? That is a very different question than you first posed.

 

[juntjoo]

no, I brought that up to show how my issue is dealt with easilly in many cases.

here's a variation on the same question:

How much min wage work can the employer impose while paying less than min wage?

I suspect my question is complicated. maybe if I come in at a different angle...

when exactly can an employer pay less than min wage? or....

how is it determined that an employer is paying enough enough to their tipped employees?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Here is a DOL interpretation of procedures for dual jobs. For a further explanation on determination of tipped wage and avg min wage, see the link.


When an employee is employed by one employer in both a tipped and a non-tipped occupation, such as an employee employed both as a maintenance person and a waitperson, the tip credit is available only for the hours spent by the employee in the tipped occupation. The FLSA permits an employer to take the tip credit for some time that the tipped employee spends in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips. For example, a waitperson who spends some time cleaning and setting tables, making coffee, and occasionally washing dishes or glasses is considered to be engaged in a tipped occupation even though these duties are not tip producing. However, where a tipped employee spends a substantial amount of time (in excess of 20 percent in the workweek) performing related duties, no tip credit may be taken for the time spent in such duties.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf

 

[juntjoo]

thanks. I found that too, and additionally interesting and particular to my personal issue is this:

"Meeting, set-up, or clean-up time: Many companies require tipped employees to come to work early or stay late for meetings or to perform opening and closing job duties. Even though these workers cannot make any tips during this time, these hours are paid at the tip credit rate. This may be illegal and employees are entitled to be paid the full minimum wage for such work time."

from this site:

www.flsalaw.com/Restaurant-Tipped-Employees/

key word tho in the above excerpt is MAY "... be illegal".

...which is why I'm trying to figure out HOW much they can impose on you and when while paying -min. at my job we got new owners/managers and they're really pushing the limit on the drivers with this and I said to one "since I'm not needed now as a driver how about I punch back in as an insider(to get min wage)" bitch and some other ignoramus started accusing me of argueing and insulting her experience as a manager and I kept finding myself defending my right to express a legit concern ... gotta go sleep and deal with em again a a few hrs. uuuugh... thanks for help

 

[juntjoo]

oh, and she refused BTW, to let me punch back in for min wage... and suggested if I wasn't happy find another job... and just wreaked of overall bad person ness.

 

[TheGeekess]

oh, and she refused BTW, to let me punch back in for min wage... and suggested if I wasn't happy find another job... and just wreaked of overall bad person ness.

Why do you have two separate threads for what seems to be the same situation?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/hiring-firing-wrongful-termination-5/how-many-hrs-must-employer-schedule-avoid-paying-unemployment-601483.html

 

[juntjoo]

Why do you have two separate threads for what seems to be the same situation?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/hiring-firing-wrongful-termination-5/how-many-hrs-must-employer-schedule-avoid-paying-unemployment-601483.html

hey, get out of my threads. I'm not double posting or anything like that. you're simply really bored and now are chasing a stranger around on the internet. shameful. please stop.

 

[TheGeekess]

hey, get out of my threads. I'm not double posting or anything like that. you're simply really bored and now are chasing a stranger around on the internet. shameful. please stop.

Alrighty then.

 

[juntjoo]

come on, what that old adage, when you assume things bla bla...

and even if they were related, they're two separate questions.

 

[TheGeekess]

come on, what that old adage, when you assume things bla bla...

and even if they were related, they're two separate questions.

This forum prefers that people asking questions keep all RELATED questions about the SAME situation in ONE thread.

 

[juntjoo]

This forum prefers that people asking questions keep all RELATED questions about the SAME situation in ONE thread.

innocent til proven guilty. oh snap

 

[justalayman]

The FLSA permits an employer to take the tip credit for some time that the tipped employee spends in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips. For example, a waitperson who spends some time cleaning and setting tables, making coffee, and occasionally washing dishes or glasses is considered to be engaged in a tipped occupation even though these duties are not tip producing. However, where a tipped employee spends a substantial amount of time (in excess of 20 percent in the workweek) performing related duties, no tip credit may be taken for the time spent in such duties.

read that multiple times. that may prevent you from having an unpaid wage claim in most circumstances.


then research wage rate averaging for minimum wage calculation purposes. Realize you must use actual tips, not merely the allowed offset credit used to establish the tipped minimum wage. That most likely prevents you from having a wage claim any other time.


then understand your employer is not obligated to allow you to "punch in for minimum wage duties"...period. They can simply tell you to do whatever you wish (not to include actual work duties for the employer) until there is another delivery. For pay purposes, you are off the clock. Then you can get into an argument with them regarding waiting to be engaged or engaged to wait.

then you can look for another job because they fired you because they are tired of dealing with your attitude.