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questions for boxcarbill

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L

loveem4life

Guest
What is the name of your state? NY

Maybe, you can help me then? Help me to understand what it is that I am doing wrong.

As far as why I go in every Year for child supprot, well to be honest, I pay 33% of all add ons (unpaid medical, dental, psycological, daycare ect.) this is on top of my weekly support obligations. The father sends the children to a summer camp that is quite expencive. my portion of this is about $1000.00, and i have to come up with the monies and have him paid within 7 days of receiving these bills in the mail. As soon as he has $1000.00 accrued he goes straight down and files a petition. My weekly net pay was never enough to cover this summer camp expence. The first year this happened, I had been hit with arrears. This took 2 x's the amount out of my pay, to make up the difference. I did what i had to to pay that off. i was at that time informed that next time i should seek relief of the court. In the mean time other add ons started to accrue. When the time came for the children to go back to this summer camp I asked the father to look into other options, I did the same, He disputed it with me. So i petitioned the court to seek relief and, or to have the children go to a more resonable summer camp. I got slaped in the face.
As soon as the amount, once again, reached that $1000.00 limit the father had me back in court. once again I had to deal with the circomstances. Now once again, here i am int this same situation.

Only now i have concerns about what will happen to me when i go into court this time due to the fact that i am unemployed. I am not totally Unemployed due to the fact that i sell Mary Kay, I started this so that i could possibly come up with the extra $$$ for this situation that i am in. I also had my current husband finance a small business doing crafts to come up with the $$$. Neither of the two has panned out as of yet. I am still working hard at this as well as applying to several locations for a punch clock job. I contacted the CS case worker to let them know that i am currently out of work. They advised me to file a petition seeking relief, well the father beat me to that.

**What will the courts do to me? Can i use my petition as a cross petition?

As far as supervised visits, in this case the court proceedings were in no ones best interest. my att. then advised me to take the supervised visits Due to the fact that we would have to go to trial and i could no longer afford att. fees at that time. He also made the agreement that this would be a temporary setting and that it would be in my best interest due to the aligations that were made against me.

The supervised visits are still going on to date. The director of these visits said to me after the 4th visit that she would be looking into having these visits diminished. It now has been 7 months and there has been no word as to when the supervised visits will end.

**What is my place here now? What do i have to do to get this changed? or should i just leave it be for now and push later?

I know now that my original post was very vague. It opend a door for slander. That was not my intentions. Someone had been talking with me about their friend giving up parental rights. I only asked as a general question, not to actually do it.

:(

I know about going to the school, the doctors office,ect.
They all have copies of the court orders. They are the ones that will not give me any information. So what do i do here? take them to court for not complying to a court order?

As for VG and Hex they could have approached me in a different mannor instead of jumping all over me. that definately didnt help me to stay calm. I guess i expected a little more out of this site than that.

Maybe you can help me go in the right direction.
Sorry for the long post, but i see now that i need to be quite a bit more detailed.

I thank you for any advise.:)
 


B

Boxcarbill

Guest
For an attorney to be able to help you, you would first have to be completely honest with them. You have this habit of glossing over things that you don't want to address and using inaccuracies to color what did happen in a light favorable to yourself. You also have the habit of hyperbolic expression. You present a lengthy set of wrongs but you fail to see what you contribute to any of this.

Example, you say, " As soon as he has $1000.00 accrued he goes straight down and files a petition.. . . The first year this happened, I had been hit with arrears." You routinely get up to a $1000.00 behind in the medical expenses and summer camp expenses. In this particular year, you also had child support arrears! You "were not hit with arrears." You failed to pay child support and that resulted in arrears. Apparently you also failed to pay 33 percent of the other expenses that you were ordered to pay. (The obligee is obviously paying the other 66 percent of these expenses.) This is why you find yourself in court every year on support.

Another example of coloring and hyperbole: You said, " I got slaped [sic] in the face," in response to filing a motion requesting relief from the expensive summer camp. That tells me nothing except that you are emotional and engage in hyperbole. Again the official file would show what relief was requested and what the court's finding were in which the court based its order.

Enforcement of child support is largely controlled by federal law. Therefore, unpaid child support accumulates arrears and those arrears accumulate interest and the amount swells while current monthly child support obligation continues. Arrears cannot be forgiven or reduced by the court. This is prohibited by federal law. Child support, however, is based upon income. If your income would not OBJECTIVELY support, under NY state law, the amount of child support, medical and summer camp expenses ordered by the court, then it would not have been ordered. And most certainly would be reversed on appeal. Incidentally, you mention nothing about providing health insurance coverage for the children either directly or through reimbursement to the obligee for his covering the children through his policy. Medical insurance is to be included in support--again this is federal mandate. Therefore if health insurance premiums are not being paid by you but only this 33 percent for reimbursement of uninsured, you are getting a rather handsome deal.

If you want the child support to be based upon your income rather than upon guess work, then the you must show up and show up with proof of income for the amount to be properly calculated. Otherwise the court will accept the guess estimate by the opposing party as to what the obligor's income is. If the obligor has a reduction in income or is unemployed or in long term incarceration, the obligor has the responsibility to file a Motion to Modify child support. This is not the responsibility of the obligee or of the court.

While I'm on the subject of showing up for court. You still have supervised visitation because, according to one of your other posts which has now been deleted, you did not attend the hearing following the investigation of your alleged abuse. Rule: If there is alleged abuse and the court runs the risk of making the wrong decision regarding whether there is abuse, the court will err in favor of protecting the child. The fact that you did not bother to show up to the hearing subsequent to the investigation really left the court with a negative impression of you and only one realistic option. A default judgment results in the other party getting what they request.

No, the doctors, schools, dentist and everyone is not refusing to give you information. That is bullsh!t. You know it and I know it. These folks have no dog in the fight. They do whatever it takes to cya and keep their jobs. That means they know that if you present them with an order which states that you have the legal right to access of the information, they must provide it to you. So either (1) you do not have an order that gives you the right to the information or (2) you are not providing them with the order. It just that simple and that clear to this lawyer.

If you want regular visitations, you must demonstrate responsibility. That means attending hearings either in person, through attorney or by arranging to testify by telephone. You must also pay child support and pay it regularly. That will eliminate the yearly court appearances. You are coming across as exactly what you said in your first post: "I just want to be left alone."

Lastly, I have written extensively on "voluntary relinquishment of parental rights." Just type those words into the window on the bottom right-hand side of the opening screen which states "search this forum" and then hit "go." That will bring up every post which contains those words. The most extensive post is the one with the highest number of posts and views.
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
due to the fact that my responses are too long i have broken them into several replys

For an attorney to be able to help you, you would first have to be completely honest with them. You have this habit of glossing over things that you don't want to address and using inaccuracies to color what did happen in a light favorable to yourself. You also have the habit of hyperbolic expression. You present a lengthy set of wrongs but you fail to see what you contribute to any of this.

**I have been honest! Ask any questions you like and I will answer! What is it that I have contributed?


Example, you say, " As soon as he has $1000.00 accrued he goes straight down and files a petition.. . . The first year this happened, I had been hit with arrears." You routinely get up to a $1000.00 behind in the medical expenses and summer camp expenses. In this particular year, you also had child support arrears! You "were not hit with arrears." You failed to pay child support and that resulted in arrears. Apparently you also failed to pay 33 percent of the other expenses that you were ordered to pay. (The obligee is obviously paying the other 66 percent of these expenses.) This is why you find yourself in court every year on support.


**In all actuality, I only ever had support arrears in the very beginning. My support payments have always been current since then, until now! The add ons were the arrears! Due to his inability to mail these bills to me, there were a years worth of add ons that I had to pay, this was a huge set back! He was, at that time, ordered to mail these bills to me certified mail within 7 days of his receiving the bills and I had to pay him the 33% owed within 7 days of the certified mail. The previous arrears made things very difficult. He then had the children go to this summer camp (which is a day care facility) which is very expensive. I had no knowledge of filling for relief and was in a financial hole! He took me back to court for these past due amounts and, of course, I had to pay. Never the less this sets me back, yes, aprox $1000.00 a year. What more can I say about this? NOTHING! Except, I owe what I owe and I have to pay it.
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
Another example of coloring and hyperbole: You said, " I got slaped [sic] in the face," in response to filing a motion requesting relief from the expensive summer camp. That tells me nothing except that you are emotional and engage in hyperbole. Again the official file would show what relief was requested and what the court's finding were in which the court based its order.

**In this case the judge kept asking me, "Did he bring you in to court?" My reply of course was no, it was my petition. He then asked me "then what are you here for?" My reply was that I can not afford the summer camp that the father has the children going to. The judge dismissed the case, without looking at any of my paper work I had to submit, so yes I feel that I got slapped in the face. I did not have my att. present for this case; he felt I could handle it on my own. I did tell him of the case and how it all went. He seemed extremely bothered by it but nothing ever came of it from my att. I did what I was told to do by the judge (petition for relief of the court) and still I had to pay for this expense that I can not afford.
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
Enforcement of child support is largely controlled by federal law. Therefore, unpaid child support accumulates arrears and those arrears accumulate interest and the amount swells while current monthly child support obligation continues. Arrears cannot be forgiven or reduced by the court. This is prohibited by federal law. Child support, however, is based upon income. If your income would not OBJECTIVELY support, under NY state law, the amount of child support, medical and summer camp expenses ordered by the court, then it would not have been ordered. And most certainly would be reversed on appeal. Incidentally, you mention nothing about providing health insurance coverage for the children either directly or through reimbursement to the obligee for his covering the children through his policy. Medical insurance is to be included in support--again this is federal mandate. Therefore if health insurance premiums are not being paid by you but only this 33 percent for reimbursement of uninsured, you are getting a rather handsome deal.

**I had both children on both my medical and dental INS coverage. I paid for this coverage; the father chose not to use it at all. I continued to cover them. When the father was finally able to support his medical coverage he then put the children on medical only. He never notified me of this change. I noticed the change in a bill that was sent yet still covered them under my ins. for the possibility of some other uncovered charges. His co-pay was much more than mine but he still refused to use my ins. coverage on the children. When we appeared in court he pushed to have his new wife cover the children on her policy due to the fact that her co-pays were much cheaper. The judge and my self did not disagree. During the time of ins. coverage on my part the father never paid into and I didn’t receive any re-imbursements. I was, and still am, fully responsible for all expenses including 33% of all co-pays. I kept the children on my dental ins. coverage due to the fact that it covered many things that his spouses did not. The father still chose not to use this ins. summer camp is not a part of the add on expenses. He claims it as a child care expense. There are many other options out there that are much more affordable and offer many other activities.
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
If you want the child support to be based upon your income rather than upon guess work, then the you must show up and show up with proof of income for the amount to be properly calculated. Otherwise the court will accept the guess estimate by the opposing party as to what the obligor's income is. If the obligor has a reduction in income or is unemployed or in long term incarceration, the obligor has the responsibility to file a Motion to Modify child support. This is not the responsibility of the obligee or of the court.

While I'm on the subject of showing up for court. You still have supervised visitation because, according to one of your other posts which has now been deleted, you did not attend the hearing following the investigation of your alleged abuse. Rule: If there is alleged abuse and the court runs the risk of making the wrong decision regarding whether there is abuse, the court will err in favor of protecting the child. The fact that you did not bother to show up to the hearing subsequent to the investigation really left the court with a negative impression of you and only one realistic option. A default judgment results in the other party getting what they request.

**First of all, I have always shown up for court. I always bring proof of my income, expenses, ect. what ever the court requests and more if I feel it is necessary! I filed a motion to modify child support. When I did so, I was informed at that time that the father had filed as well. He had his papers served to me before I got the chance to have my papers served to him. I was informed at that time, also, that if he served me first my papers were no good! My question was, can I use these papers as a cross petition?

***Secondly, I never said that I did not attend the hearing! I met with CPS regarding these allegations with my att. present! I never heard back from CPS regarding these allegations. As a matter of fact neither did my att. I called him about this and he informed me to write to CPS to get the answers on their finding. I did so and still haven’t heard what the out come was! The only other choice I had left at the time of this proceeding, according to my att., was to either go to trial or to just do the visitation, which would in the long run be in my best interest! I could not afford to go to trial! So I took the advice of my att. The supervised visitation has nothing what so ever to do with the allegations of abuse. Not unless there is a lot that att. has not told me. If that’s the case then I have been mislead by my att. therefore, would explain a new world of possibilities and facts that I would have to deal with.
Am I right? Also is that possible that he did not tell me things that he should have?
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
No, the doctors, schools, dentist and everyone is not refusing to give you information. That is bullsh!t. You know it and I know it. These folks have no dog in the fight. They do whatever it takes to cya and keep their jobs. That means they know that if you present them with an order which states that you have the legal right to access of the information, they must provide it to you. So either (1) you do not have an order that gives you the right to the information or (2) you are not providing them with the order. It just that simple and that clear to this lawyer.

**In here, if you don’t believe me I will give you all the information you need to call and inquire your self. The last time I called on the Dr. Office the receptionist said “I can not give you that information. I know that you had a court order here but for some reason it is gone. You have to bring in a new court order up to date and current. Until then you have no access to this information." My att. said to stick that in my back pocket for later.
The last court order is only an order and notice for supervised visitation. It says nothing of my rights, ect. All of these people want a current order due to the fact that they have this order on hand and claim I have no rights. My att. says different. So at this point where do I stand? Is it that I only have supervised visits and nothing else or what? I can’t seem to get the right answers or the proper paperwork to submit.

If you want regular visitations, you must demonstrate responsibility. That means attending hearings either in person, through attorney or by arranging to testify by telephone. You must also pay child support and pay it regularly. That will eliminate the yearly court appearances. You are coming across as exactly what you said in your first post: "I just want to be left alone."

I do want to be left alone by the father! And his untruths that he comes up with by twisting the facts around to his benefit.
 
L

loveem4life

Guest
finally the last comment

Lastly, I have written extensively on "voluntary relinquishment of parental rights." Just type those words into the window on the bottom right-hand side of the opening screen which states "search this forum" and then hit "go." That will bring up every post which contains those words. The most extensive post is the one with the highest number of posts and views.

**I chose not to go there but thank you any way. I want answers to what I have to do to get this all straightened out.
If I came across as a parent who didn’t care do you really think that I would have fought as long as I have?

I know also that there is his story and her story and att.'s have to decide who is right and who is wrong, who to defend and who not to. Or even yet put the two stories together and see what actually happened.

Thank you for your time you are spending on this.
If you have any other advice or suggestions, I would like to hear them.
 
B

Boxcarbill

Guest
loveem4life said:
**In here, if you don’t believe me I will give you all the information you need to call and inquire your self. The last time I called on the Dr. Office the receptionist said “I can not give you that information. I know that you had a court order here but for some reason it is gone. You have to bring in a new court order up to date and current. Until then you have no access to this information. My att. said to stick that in my back pocket for later.


My response:

So it comes down to one doctor as opposed to everyone refuses to give you information! (See what I mean by hyperbole). So you CALLED and the receptionist told you what they needed to be able to give you the information--that is, they need a copy of the order. Instead of providing them with what they need, you refuse and decide that they have the order but just don't want to give you the information!

If your attorney told you to stick that in your back pocket, that is tantamount to telling you to stick it up your butt for all the good it will do you. And if you had or have an attorney why didn't that attorney "call and inquire" for you! You need to send them a copy of the order which gives you this right. Don't call. Make a personal appearance or send the order along with a cover letter that explains what you want certified mail, return receipt requested. Make an inquiry as to the amount of cost that they will need to receive in order to cover the cost of copies and postage to provide you with this information. Then send them the money to cover the cost and postage. If they balk and I sincerely doubt it, then you can explain very carefully that if they will not comply by providing you with this information, then you be forced to subponea the records and the record keepers and then do it. No one likes to go to court and businesses really hate to have one or more employees in court rather than in the office doing what the employer is paying them to do.

___________________________________________________
The last court order is only an order and notice for supervised visitation. It says nothing of my rights, ect. All of these people want a current order due to the fact that they have this order on hand and claim I have no rights. My att. says different. So at this point where do I stand? Is it that I only have supervised visits and nothing else or what? I can’t seem to get the right answers or the proper paperwork to submit.

My response:

You are making the simple, difficult. The last order which sets out the parental rights of each parent is the controlling order as to that subject. Parents, whether divorced or married, have certain rights by virtue of being a parent. With divorce, certain rights must obviously be given exclusively to one parent--the right to enforce and collect and distribute child support is one of those rights and the right to decide legal domicile of the child is another one of those rights or the order must state that the custodial party must obtain the permission of the other party or the court before changing residence out of a given area. Anyway, the right to have access to academic and medical treatment is one of the rights that both parties retain at all times, regardless of whether a custodial or none custodial parent, married or divorced, UNLESS that right is specifically removed by the court. You may or may not have supervised visitation but supervised visitations does not limit your access to information regarding your children unless the court also restricted your right to that information. I have never seen a court take away the right to access of information unless the court has granted a motion to terminate parental rights--not the case, here. So look at your orders. Unless there is an order which specifically sets out that you have had that right removed, you still have it.

_________________________________________________

I do want to be left alone by the father! And his untruths that he comes up with by twisting the facts around to his benefit.

My response: You cannot control anyone else's behavior but your own. If you want to reduce being bothered by the father, then stay current on your child support and other financial obligation. That alone will greatly reduce his bothering you and will eliminate being brought into court every year on failure to pay support. But he is not going to leave you alone when you fail to pay support.
 
B

Boxcarbill

Guest
loveem4life said:
If you want the child support to be based upon your income rather than upon guess work, then the you must show up and show up with proof of income for the amount to be properly calculated. Otherwise the court will accept the guess estimate by the opposing party as to what the obligor's income is. If the obligor has a reduction in income or is unemployed or in long term incarceration, the obligor has the responsibility to file a Motion to Modify child support. This is not the responsibility of the obligee or of the court.

While I'm on the subject of showing up for court. You still have supervised visitation because, according to one of your other posts which has now been deleted, you did not attend the hearing following the investigation of your alleged abuse. Rule: If there is alleged abuse and the court runs the risk of making the wrong decision regarding whether there is abuse, the court will err in favor of protecting the child. The fact that you did not bother to show up to the hearing subsequent to the investigation really left the court with a negative impression of you and only one realistic option. A default judgment results in the other party getting what they request.

**First of all, I have always shown up for court. I always bring proof of my income, expenses, ect. what ever the court requests and more if I feel it is necessary! I filed a motion to modify child support. When I did so, I was informed at that time that the father had filed as well. He had his papers served to me before I got the chance to have my papers served to him. I was informed at that time, also, that if he served me first my papers were no good! My question was, can I use these papers as a cross petition?

***Secondly, I never said that I did not attend the hearing! I met with CPS regarding these allegations with my att. present! I never heard back from CPS regarding these allegations. As a matter of fact neither did my att. I called him about this and he informed me to write to CPS to get the answers on their finding. I did so and still haven’t heard what the out come was! The only other choice I had left at the time of this proceeding, according to my att., was to either go to trial or to just do the visitation, which would in the long run be in my best interest! I could not afford to go to trial! So I took the advice of my att. The supervised visitation has nothing what so ever to do with the allegations of abuse. Not unless there is a lot that att. has not told me. If that’s the case then I have been mislead by my att. therefore, would explain a new world of possibilities and facts that I would have to deal with.
Am I right? Also is that possible that he did not tell me things that he should have?
I missed seeing all these string but even so we are wasting one another's time. I had attempted to show you what you were contributing to adverse rulings. You want to argue that you are misunderstood and a victim. I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm not being paid to argue for you much less with you. I know how the court system works and so you will need to get reinforcement for your adverse rulings from people who are more gullible than I am regarding the judicial system.
 

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