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Questions on my mom's behalf.

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ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Georgia

My mom and step-dad have been married 40 years. For the first 10, they worked together. My dad did auto body work and my mom worked right beside him. They saved and bought 10.5 acres of land and a doublewide. Property and home are in both their names. In the years since, they've added 2 small singlewides - one that my brother and his family live in, and one that my uncle lives in. My dad moved in with him in October. The singlewides are in both their names.

My dad then filed for and was approved for VA disability just before they bought the land, and my parents have lived off the disability for the past 30 years. My dad has never been able to manage money, so my mom always did it. They were always super-cautious about banks and live mostly on cash. It wasn't until the last 5 or so years that I talked my mom into leaving money in their joint account and having utilities auto-drafted. Neither of my parents liked checks, either. Very old fashioned. So they, at the time, always kept a large amount of cash in a lock-box hidden at home and when they needed a new (used) car, they just bought them outright so they didn't have to pay interest. New tractor? Paid. Lawnmower? Done.

Fast forward and after 40 years of marriage my dad wants a divorce. He's accusing mom of "stealing" the money in the account, and he's removed basically all financial records from the house. My mom is freaking out. Keep in mind, she never spends anything for herself. Shops for clothes and such at Goodwill. Has only ever bought one new piece of furniture and that was a sofa/love seat she bought 25+ years ago. She doesn't vacation, doesn't go out, doesn't gamble or drink or use drugs - not street, and not pharmaceutical. She doesn't even spend on health care. She needs glasses and dental work but wouldn't pay for it for herself. She has no problem with spending on Dad or my brother or whoever, just not herself. Her heating unit died last fall and dad wouldn't pay for another. He had already moved in with my uncle at that point and she just stayed in the cold. I'll point out that in January he told her to go ahead and write a check and get the heating unit replaced. Since he'd moved out at that point, she didn't trust him so she didn't do it. Good thing, too. She found out afterward that he'd taken $7K+ out of the account and an $10K check would have bounced.

Anyway, she's worried about proving where the money went. Some things that she's spent money on should be obvious. No one eats air. I keep telling her that no judge is going to wonder what happened to all the money she's withdrawn over the last five years when they clearly have to eat. Insurance has to be paid. Dad's bought multiple cars/trucks over the years to fix up as hobbies but she doesn't have the records for those anymore. He's bought supplies and car parts. They've had mulitple repairs in the house through the years due to leaks and such. Any records of those expenses were in the boxes Dad removed.

Dad's attorney sent mom some papers last week that included copies of all her withdrawals, including a single $600 check she wrote to me. Because they don't shop online, I always buy all the Christmas/birthday gifts for all the kids and they have always split the cost with me. Mom usually gives me cash, but I knew I wasn't going to be able to get by the bank and I don't like carrying cash so she gave me a check to cover half.

How concerned do we need to be about this? Logic should tell anyone that if all the bank records only show utility payments, then naturally all the other life expenses from new tires to oil changes to transmissions to garden hoses and toilet repairs and food still existed even if no one kept the receipts. At least, I keep telling myself a judge will see it that way. Is there any way a judge will believe that she's "stolen" approx $2500-$3000/month over 5 years? I should also mention my parents have also been partially supporting my brother and his family for years as well. But, again, no receipts.

Dad's saying he should keep all the property and that he'll "let her" keep living in the doublewide. I've read there is supposed to be equitable distribution of assets. She'll never get alimony because his income is disability. The absolute most she could get is half the $900 social security, which is a pittance. She can't get social secuirty for herself because she hasn't paid in since she was 23 years old. I'm hoping a judge will give her the property (minus the couple of acres where my brother and Dad are living.) Then she can sell it and move closer to me so I can help her. She's 64 years old, can't use a computer (the area where they live is so rural you can barely get dial-up so she never got one), and is in poor health. He'll never work a day in his life but she'll be forced into work at an age when she should be leaving it. She can move in with me but her pride is already hurt and she feels she'd be a burden. She's really worried she'll live out her life in poverty. What are the chances she could at least get most of the property since she can't get a dime in alimony?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 


ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
I don't know if it's relevant or not, but just in case, I'll add that Dad is so financially illiterate that he asked my mom to be the representative payee for both his disabled brothers' social secuirty. One brother has since passed, but she also managed all their finances for 30+ years. Even while he was accusing her of stealing from him, he wouldn't go to SSA to become the payee for his remaining brother until last week. So I feel like he can't actually believe what he's saying, rather just looking for something to say in court so he won't have to give her anything.

Mom even physically took care of his mother after her stroke for years. She was wheelchair bound with a colostomy and mom handled more than half of the care. I took care of the other half. The brothers also couldn't cook for themselves, so for years she and I made meals and froze them so they could microwave home-cooked meals. We also shared responsibility for all their doctor's appointments and shopping. Ok, that last half definitely not relevant. I just ended up venting. Sorry.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
The judge is not going to care how the money was spent at all. Your dad is being ridiculous. 2000.00 to 3000.00 a month is clearly nothing more than normal living expenses. Maybe if your mother had been spending 5-10 times that amount a judge might raise an eyebrow, but not 2000.00 to 3000.00 a month. In fact, if your mother HAD fixed the heating in the double wide it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow either.
 

ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
The judge is not going to care how the money was spent at all. Your dad is being ridiculous. 2000.00 to 3000.00 a month is clearly nothing more than normal living expenses. Maybe if your mother had been spending 5-10 times that amount a judge might raise an eyebrow, but not 2000.00 to 3000.00 a month. In fact, if your mother HAD fixed the heating in the double wide it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow either.
That's what I'm hoping for. The big "issue" he keeps harping on is that the withdrawals are big. She pulls, say, $8-12k out, and when it runs low she withdraws another $8-12k. He tried to tell me on the phone how she was taking $12K out of their account at a time and I'm just befuddled because that's been their practice for decades. He even tried to tell me about her "extra" account in her name where she was hiding money - which was literally just the account for his brother. Her name was on it as the rep payee above his brother's name. She's already turned all the bank records for both accounts over to the attorney but mom is worried a judge will buy into him being victimized if he shows up with his Vietnam veteran's hat pretending she's taken advantage of him. I'm feeling like he needs to prove some wrongdoing and she's feeling like she needs to prove what she spent it all on. I feel like him telling her to write a check for the HVAC, knowing he'd nearly emptied the account is about as low as you can get. So disappointed in how dirty he's being.

Thanks for the response.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
That's what I'm hoping for. The big "issue" he keeps harping on is that the withdrawals are big. She pulls, say, $8-12k out, and when it runs low she withdraws another $8-12k. He tried to tell me on the phone how she was taking $12K out of their account at a time and I'm just befuddled because that's been their practice for decades. He even tried to tell me about her "extra" account in her name where she was hiding money - which was literally just the account for his brother. Her name was on it as the rep payee above his brother's name. She's already turned all the bank records for both accounts over to the attorney but mom is worried a judge will buy into him being victimized if he shows up with his Vietnam veteran's hat pretending she's taken advantage of him. I'm feeling like he needs to prove some wrongdoing and she's feeling like she needs to prove what she spent it all on. I feel like telling her to write a check for the HVAC, knowing he'd nearly emptied the account is about as low as you can get. So disappointed in how dirty he's being.

Thanks for the response.
They are married! The money is a marital asset. She had every right to spend it. If worst comes to worst you can testify on her behalf that their pattern was to use cash for everything and that they typically took 8-12k out of the bank periodically. Is that a bit odd? Yes, of course it's a bit odd, but still, they are married and she had the right to spend the money.

What the attorney is probably hoping to demonstrate is that she spent the money foolishly or recklessly. The point of doing that would be to give your father a greater share of the marital assets. However, since that 8-12k wasn't "extra" money but rather the actual money used to support themselves and pay for bills and necessities the lawyer isn't going to be able to demonstrate that.

I hope that your mother made it clear to the attorney that the other account was the rep payee account for the disabled brother.
 

ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
They are married! The money is a marital asset. She had every right to spend it. If worst comes to worst you can testify on her behalf that their pattern was to use cash for everything and that they typically took 8-12k out of the bank periodically. Is that a bit odd? Yes, of course it's a bit odd, but still, they are married and she had the right to spend the money.

What the attorney is probably hoping to demonstrate is that she spent the money foolishly or recklessly. The point of doing that would be to give your father a greater share of the marital assets. However, since that 8-12k wasn't "extra" money but rather the actual money used to support themselves and pay for bills and necessities the lawyer isn't going to be able to demonstrate that.

I hope that your mother made it clear to the attorney that the other account was the rep payee account for the disabled brother.
She did, and what's more, it actually is in his name as well, and she's listed as rep payee on the account. The only money that ever went into it was the SS payment and the only thing that ever came out was auto-draft bills and the $250/month she took out for him to spend on clothes/entertainment, etc. The only question was whether she had to prove what she spent on other essentials.

I'm hoping an attorney or someone who's had this type of experience will weigh in. I hired an attorney for mom, but to be honest he hasn't been very responsive and I can't afford to pay a retainer on another. It'd help to know if I should be looking back through amazon/walmart receipts for online purchases I made on their behalf. I could easily account for the Christmas purchases made in 2021 (when she wrote the $600 check to me to cover half). That $1200 seems like a lot, but it was for their 5 grandkids and a couple nieces and nephews. And it's all clearly kid-related stuff.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
She did, and what's more, it actually is in his name as well, and she's listed as rep payee on the account. The only money that ever went into it was the SS payment and the only thing that ever came out was auto-draft bills and the $250/month she took out for him to spend on clothes/entertainment, etc. The only question was whether she had to prove what she spent on other essentials.

I'm hoping an attorney or someone who's had this type of experience will weigh in. I hired an attorney for mom, but to be honest he hasn't been very responsive and I can't afford to pay a retainer on another. It'd help to know if I should be looking back through amazon/walmart receipts for online purchases I made on their behalf. I could easily account for the Christmas purchases made in 2021 (when she wrote the $600 check to me to cover half). That $1200 seems like a lot, but it was for their 5 grandkids and a couple nieces and nephews. And it's all clearly kid-related stuff.
$600.00 is not a big enough amount to have to justify with receipts etc.
 

ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
When is the last time he's been seen by a doctor? Does he have any other symptoms of dementia? Because that paranoia sounds like one...
Honestly, we tried to talk to his primary doc about very clear concerns at least 10 years ago. He didn't take us seriously. Dad's father died from Alzheimers. There have been some sketchy moments (he couldn't remember once how to get home when he was only 15 minutes away - mom had to go get him) and his moods have certainly been volatile. But we have zero proof. When he moved out, it was after he grabbed mom by the throat and she lashed out, scratching up his face. That's likely when he decided to divorce her and started trying to figure out how to keep her from getting anything they accumulated.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
She has one, but he's not really good about responding to calls within a timely fashion and I can't afford another retainer right now.
Each call costs money...and calling over every little worry doesn't help. Your mom needs to save her questions up (write them down) and ask for a short meeting where she can concisely communicate her concerns. The attorney will appreciate it, and the cost will be cheaper than peppering the attorney with questions at random times.
 

ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
Each call costs money...and calling over every little worry doesn't help. Your mom needs to save her questions up (write them down) and ask for a short meeting where she can concisely communicate her concerns. The attorney will appreciate it, and the cost will be cheaper than peppering the attorney with questions at random times.
I understand that. We have many questions. We didn't call with just this question. We called to request a time for a call to answer them. He sent her paperwork to fill out. She had questions about a few of the items. There was a budget to be filled out. She did, then got them back with corrections she needed to make. We thought it'd be best to either schedule a call or schedule a sit-down, but we haven't gotten a return call after two weeks.

I'm here asking this question because I'm trying to figure out if I should be trying to print receipts for all the online purchases I've made for them related to repairs and Christmases and such. I'd rather know sooner rather than later so I'll have time to do it. I work 12-16 hour nights and can set time aside to do it but don't want to waste my time if it's not needed.

Editing to add, we don't even necessarily need to meet with him. I'm sure a paralegal would be able to answer many of our questions. I'm not saying they haven't provided us with a time for a call or meeting during the next two weeks. I'm saying they haven't responded to the two calls we made a couple of weeks ago requesting an appointment.
 
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doucar

Junior Member
Is your mom getting social security. I ask because it wasn't clear. She is entitled to the spouse benefit, 1/2 of his (not from his) or her own whichever is more. Since she hasn't worked since age 23, I suspect it would be an amount equal to 1/2 of his.
 

ReadyToGiveUp

Junior Member
Is your mom getting social security. I ask because it wasn't clear. She is entitled to the spouse benefit, 1/2 of his (not from his) or her own whichever is more. Since she hasn't worked since age 23, I suspect it would be an amount equal to 1/2 of his.
She isn't. He started receiving his years ago because of his disability (PTSD). But I don't think she's old enough at 64. I may be wrong, but I thought 65 was the age to collect. We've never even considered it because his disability was plenty.
 

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