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questions on SS benefits and trust income

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ldkuhns

Member
What is the name of your state? PA

This is going to be kind of long so I apologize ahead of time. The situation is: one child lives with grandparents in PA. Father is non-custodial parent. Because grandmother is a non-parent only income receive on behalf of child can be used in calculation of support.

At conference, father's income was set at $3230.00 per month. Grandmother receives SS benefits of $778.00 on behalf of child. Total net income for guidelines calculations was 848.00. Then pursuant to rule 1910.16-3. SS benefits then subtracted back out leaving a support obligation of $70.00 per month to father. My question on this topic is this: does anyone know of any case law out there where the ss death benefits were treated in another manner? (i.e. as income to the party receiving it?) To me, the treatment of SS benefits as defined in the PA code is rock solid and I cant see any court reversing it without the request for a deviation in the guidelines. Any thoughts?

Secondly, the grandmother is the trustee as well as the executrix of the deceased mother's will and trust. Grandmother claims that trust was set up for the children to receive their monies at 18 and she receives no monies from the trust. The deceased mother's will states " the trustee shall pay or apply so much of the income and principal of said trust as the trustee in his sole and absolute discretion shall deem necessary and proper for the beneficiary's support, maintenance, general welfare, care and education, adding any unused income to the principal at the end of each year". Any thoughts on how to argue this? My impressions are that she can take what she wants when she wants and therefore should be included in calculation of support.

I ask this because I have a de novo hearing coming up and I want to make sure I don't miss anything. I am acting pro se.

Thank you
 


BL

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? PA

This is going to be kind of long so I apologize ahead of time. The situation is: one child lives with grandparents in PA. Father is non-custodial parent. Because grandmother is a non-parent only income receive on behalf of child can be used in calculation of support.

At conference, father's income was set at $3230.00 per month. Grandmother receives SS benefits of $778.00 on behalf of child. Total net income for guidelines calculations was 848.00. Then pursuant to rule 1910.16-3. SS benefits then subtracted back out leaving a support obligation of $70.00 per month to father. My question on this topic is this: does anyone know of any case law out there where the ss death benefits were treated in another manner? (i.e. as income to the party receiving it?) To me, the treatment of SS benefits as defined in the PA code is rock solid and I cant see any court reversing it without the request for a deviation in the guidelines. Any thoughts?

Secondly, the grandmother is the trustee as well as the executrix of the deceased mother's will and trust. Grandmother claims that trust was set up for the children to receive their monies at 18 and she receives no monies from the trust. The deceased mother's will states " the trustee shall pay or apply so much of the income and principal of said trust as the trustee in his sole and absolute discretion shall deem necessary and proper for the beneficiary's support, maintenance, general welfare, care and education, adding any unused income to the principal at the end of each year". Any thoughts on how to argue this? My impressions are that she can take what she wants when she wants and therefore should be included in calculation of support.

I ask this because I have a de novo hearing coming up and I want to make sure I don't miss anything. I am acting pro se.

Thank you
I don't see where grandma needs to take anything out of trust as she receives a check each month to provide for the child .

Do you really want to try and get those records of trust in ?

I don't think the argument that grandma could use the trust money for child support also would fly .

The deduction sounds fair to me of the SS benefits .
 

ldkuhns

Member
The trust income really is not that important but the grandma has lied so many other times that I'm not believing her right now. Furthermore, the oldest daughter has turned 18 and according to the trust was supposed to get her money and has not. Grandma testified that they were supposed to get it at 18. So just curious as to what she's doing with it and if she has actually used it for the children's benefit or her own.

I agree with you on the SS issue. The deduction is as it should be and that's why she's filed for a de novo cause she doesn't like the rule and thinks it should be applied differently. The order legally should stand but stranger things have happened in PA.
 

BL

Senior Member
The trust income really is not that important but the grandma has lied so many other times that I'm not believing her right now. Furthermore, the oldest daughter has turned 18 and according to the trust was supposed to get her money and has not. Grandma testified that they were supposed to get it at 18. So just curious as to what she's doing with it and if she has actually used it for the children's benefit or her own.

I agree with you on the SS issue. The deduction is as it should be and that's why she's filed for a de novo cause she doesn't like the rule and thinks it should be applied differently. The order legally should stand but stranger things have happened in PA.
Why not let the 18 year old inquire ?

If the 18 year old doesn't get the trust that's due , a consult with a local attorney for a small fee is in order .

Perhaps the local bar assoc. has a lawyer referral program .
 

ldkuhns

Member
She's been told by grandma that she's not allowed to touch the money and I might be able to help her find out this way. The trust really is a non-issue to me personally but I dont "trust" grandma. (ha ha!)

I am happy about the order as it stands today and posed the questions hoping that anyone had ideas regarding anything unusual that could happen to me in a de novo (devil's advocate sort of thing). Thanks BL for your input
 

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