random drug search of vehicle!

[ciggy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa
I was recently pulled over in a residential area for not signaling a turn. I showed the officer my licence, registration, and proof of insurance. After confirming all were up to date he started asking about weapons and drugs in the car! I was quite frightened and confused. Next thing I know, I am in front of the squad car being searched. After he's done with that he search's the car, then gets his dog in the car for a search. Finding nothing, he tells me I can be on my way. I was quite upset to say the least. I called the chief of police and was inquiring about the police report concerning the incident. He told me there was no report made because there was no ticket issued, but said it was on video if I wanted to view it. He also said that I gave the officer consent to search the car (which I may have), and that he was within his rights. The chief also said that this is what the officer does mostly, random stopping for drugs!! There was no probable cause for him to search the car, or me!! I felt very intimidated by the whole thing. Should I just lick my wounds and get over it.

ciggy

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa
I was recently pulled over in a residential area for not signaling a turn. I showed the officer my licence, registration, and proof of insurance. After confirming all were up to date he started asking about weapons and drugs in the car! I was quite frightened and confused. Next thing I know, I am in front of the squad car being searched. After he's done with that he search's the car, then gets his dog in the car for a search. Finding nothing, he tells me I can be on my way. I was quite upset to say the least. I called the chief of police and was inquiring about the police report concerning the incident. He told me there was no report made because there was no ticket issued, but said it was on video if I wanted to view it. He also said that I gave the officer consent to search the car (which I may have), and that he was within his rights. The chief also said that this is what the officer does mostly, random stopping for drugs!! There was no probable cause for him to search the car, or me!! I felt very intimidated by the whole thing. Should I just lick my wounds and get over it.

ciggy

Probable cause to search the vehicle is not needed since you gave consent.
Doing a pat-down on you is perfectly valid.
And, even the stop was legit, since you didn't signal.

Congratulations on being a (mostly) law-abiding citizen.

 

[ShowerHat]

Don't lick your wounds exercise your power and be ready the next time with a firm "I do not consent to a search." Everybody is intimidated the first time. He can always let his dog walk around your car with or without consent. When a policeman asks me to step out of the vehicle I always lock it.

You should go to youtube and watch the "dealing with police encounters" series of videos.

 

[Zigner]

Don't lick your wounds exercise your power and be ready the next time with a firm "I do not consent to a search." Everybody is intimidated the first time. He can always let his dog walk around your car with or without consent. When a policeman asks me to step out of the vehicle I always lock it.

You sound like you have ample experience in this area
OP - that is a bad thing to do. It WILL lead to additional charges if you end up getting charged in the first place.

 

[ShowerHat]

The topic is how to deal with a policeman who wants to search your vehicle on a fishing expedition. Your advice is to let them. Ok I can see some people taking that path and in fact I have chosen that option myself. However exerting your rights is the best way to insure that you do not become a victim of the system.

Around here they sometimes ask you to step out of your vehicle and stand by the cruiser. Then they open your door to check your VIN number. That amounts to an illegal search, by locking the door you place them in a position they can't fudge before the judge.

I'm sure you're not suggesting that exercising your rights as a citizen is ". . . is a bad thing to do. It WILL lead to additional charges."

Personally this is the civil libertarian in me, I don't use drugs, rarely drink, lead a boring life. However, I still want my private space and I want to be free from excessive police harassment.

 

[wyett717]

I don't use drugs, rarely drink, lead a boring life.

Since you don't do drugs or rarely drink, there' shouldn't be a problem with them looking then. I'm sure OP and everyone else in the world will not be seeking legal advice from YouTube, but I could be wrong

 

[ShowerHat]

Everything you wrote was sound, not only sound but succinctly worded. so the only thing we differ on is locking the doors? I realize this is like pulling a flame torch but I attended a ACLU course and that was one of the areas covered. They can look through the windshield to read the VIN and in fact that's the easiest way to do it.

Even if you arrest me, or especially if you arrest me (on say, an outstanding warrant over child support) you do not have the right to search my vehicle. I realize in most situations you do what you want and are seldom challenged but it's still requires a search warrant issued by a judge and a compelling reason, this week anyway (see Arizona v. Gant) If I've been arrested over failing to pay child support there is no grounds to search my car for weapons or drugs.

Locking the doors insures that any decision to do so will require you to ask me for the keys. At that point the event is firmly fixed in everyones memory, as opposed to those kind of soft decisions where you can't quite remember how events went and the the police claim they found contraband while innocently checking the VIN

When dealing with the police you are positioning yourself for court. Cops will do what they want and there isn't much you can do about it. However you have much better odds in court.

But these checks and balances are not a bad thing, the police do need some level of outside conrtrol or their powers would grow out of hand.

Certainly I could be wrongon a point or two but this is my understanding

 

[CavemanLawyer]

locking the doors ....

Even the smallest traffic infraction still gives the officer reasonable suspicion to conduct an investigatory detention for anything related to that offense. If an officer pulled you over for speeding, no there probably would be no reason to have you step out of the vehicle. If he asked you to and you locked the door and said no, the officer wouldn't be justified in going any further unless more probable cause was developed. In reality, I think most officers would FIND some probable cause to get your ass out of the vehicle. So it really would not be worth it and doing it just to be difficult in the name of protecting rights that haven't, and probably wouldn't, be violated is juvenile.

But with that said, there are a million different valid reasons that an officer might have you step out of the vehicle even for a traffic infraction, and locking the doors and refusing to get out would absolutely result in additional charges and give the officer probable cause to force you out of the vehicle.

For instance, if you've got any defective equipment the officer could require you to get out to look at it and answer questions about it. If you littered or damaged any property (mailbox, curb, even grass) he could make you get out and answer questions about it. Etc.. etc... And another catchall would be if the location made it difficult or dangerous for the officer to deal with you in the car. If there is a small shoulder on the highway and a guardrail on the other, than the officer is standing too close to traffic while on your driver's side, and has nowhere to stand on your passenger side. In this case, an officer is justified in making you get out of your vehicle and stand in the shoulder for safety of both of you, regardless of what offense the officer is investigating.

 

[ciggy]

There are millions of people that go about their daily lives without ever experiencing a single police contact. There are millions of drivers that go about their business for decades without being stopped by the police. Those people pay their taxes, renew their driver privileges when they're supposed to, pay their registration every year, and keep current on their insurance premiums, maintain their vehicles, and obey the rules of the road.

Do all that and you won't become "a victim of the system".

I am one of those millions of people. That is why I felt and still feel what happened was unjustified. Would the officer had done the same to my 16 year old daughter, or my mother? The answer has to be yes, since he had absolutely no reason to suspect any weapons or drugs in my case. And if it did happen to my daughter, or mother, they would have been so upset they would be in tears I am sure. Maybe I didn't use my turn signal. I would have much rather received a ticket for that than go through what I did.

 

[ShowerHat]

Just to clarify one point for caveman lawyer. If asked to step out and wait in the grass along the shoulder, I assume to expose you to chiggers. Or maybe the officer wants to conduct business closer to his dash cam or he wants to see how you walk etc. It's then I quietly lock my door as I'm exiting I'm not sitting in the car throwing a tantrum thumping the power locks. Should he try and enter my vehicle I'll just explain I locked it out of habit.

I don't smoke but I still carry fire coverage.

 

[ciggy]

I have learned a valuable lesson in civics. Just say no whenever a police officer wants to search your car. Why waste his valuable time and resources when you have nothing to hide. And if you do have contraband you had better for dang sure say no to a search.

I was taught that you obey the law. The police represent the law. When the officer asked me if he could search the car, I agreed because he represented the law. I guess I thought I was doing what he wanted me to do without considering my personal feelings on the matter.

A lesson well learned!