re-subletting an illegal sublet

[sduves]

i mean, she is not legally entitled to the $2000 because she does not have subletting rights. so ultimately, who gets to keep the $2000?

 

[BL]

i mean, she is not legally entitled to the $2000 because she does not have subletting rights. so ultimately, who gets to keep the $2000?

You knew it was illegal sub-let .

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/dirty-hands-doctrine.html

 

[sduves]

i didn't, i thought it was a legal sublet, when i gave her the money. i thought she was the owner. i found out only afterwards.
it matters whether i knew it was an illegal sublet?

 

[Zigner]

i mean, she is not legally entitled to the $2000 because she does not have subletting rights. so ultimately, who gets to keep the $2000?

From your perspective, the money you paid her is hers.
Just to be clear, you never stated that YOUR tenant didn't get use of the residence.

 

[BL]

i didn't, i thought it was a legal sublet, when i gave her the money. i thought she was the owner. i found out only afterwards.
it matters whether i knew it was an illegal sublet?

You Stated:

sorry for the confusion, not from the landlord, but from the tenant.

i.e., i rent a room illegally from alice for $2000 in a verbal agreement, the landlord does not know about it, i then re-rent it (again illegally) for $1000 to bob, giving him the keys.

Sounds to me like you knew what you were doing , and never gave any indication you did not know until now .

Quit pulling our legs .

 

[sduves]

thank you for your answers.
bob lived there part of the time (only a few days), then moved out.
i never lived there, when i gave the check to alice i thought she owned the place, it is the first sublet in my life, then i asked her a question regarding the keys and she wanted me to sneak around, i knew then she didn't have permission to sublet the place. but i already gave her the payment and i already got the keys by that point. but i guess i still made a mistake by resubletting it?

 

[sduves]

if i had NOT subletting the place after knowing it was illegal, would i be able to get my original amount back? i guess there are no excuses for me re subletting it

 

[You Are Guilty]

Ultimately, what we think is irrelevant. File your small claims case for the $2000 and see what the judge's opinion of all this is. It'll only cost you $20 and your time. (Just be aware that while the possibility is small, you can potentially be subject to sanctions if the court determines that your claim is frivolous).

 

[sduves]

thank you for everyone's responses
I was also interested in this from a theoretical perspective, what does the amount that she owes me depend on?
does the amount she owe me "ethically" differ from what she owes me "legally"?
does it depend on any of these things?
-that i did not know the sublet was illegal until after i paid her and got the keys already?
-that i re-subletted even if it was only temporary and made in good faith in order to help alice get another tenant
-whether or not i lived there
-whether or not bob lived there

 

[Antigone*]

i mean, she is not legally entitled to the $2000 because she does not have subletting rights. so ultimately, who gets to keep the $2000?

This OP doesn't get it. She wants someone to tell her that yes the money should rightfully go back. So is this going to be a battle of wills between the OP and the rest of the forum

OP - you are not going to get the answer you want. To answer your question directly, the one who gets to keep the 2000 is the one who has it.

 

[sduves]

Wirelessany, thank you for the direct answer.
I asked this question sort of as a theoretical question. I really did not know the sublet was illegal until some time after I had already paid and gotten the keys - I really believed it was her apartment until that point, this was my first time in NY and I didn't know that people needed permission of their management companies to sublet, and I thought it was her apartment.

There was a verbal agreement on the basis of a sublet that is legal.

I accepted payment temporarily as a way to help alice find another tenant. I gave bob the keys, but alice got upset and told me via the phone she wanted to reverse the transaction in exchange for her keys back. Then she decided to deal directly with the new tenant. I gave him the money back in a couple days before I found out she had cashed my check.

Does it matter that I did not knowingly enter into an illegal verbal contract?
That's why I think I should get my $2000 back. You guys are saying that I don't have any legal recourse because I knowingly entered into a verbal contract, but I actually did not. I asked that in theory because that is what alice is claiming and will say in court even though I know it's not true (I have emails that show me being upset over the fact that she did not tell me it was illegal when I paid her and her response that she thought it was okay because she doesn't know about the laws here).

My mistake was in re-subletting it at all rather than just breaking the "agreement" right then and suing her at that point.
If the answer to the first question is that I should get my money back if I did not know it was illegal, does the fact that I re-subletted after knowing that it was illegal change this?

I just want to know what to expect in court, I know you think that what you say is irrelevant, but for me it helps to get opinions of others before pursuing this issue further, even if it's just from other members of a forum I don't really know anyone else who knows about these issues and I can't find anything online

 

[BL]

If the answer to the first question is that I should get my money back if I did not know it was illegal, does the fact that I re-subletted after knowing that it was illegal change this?

Did you even look at the link of " clean Hands " , and did you even read, go ahead spend 20.00 bucks and some of your time to see what the Judge rules .

Or do you want us to tell you what you want to hear , is YES you have a case , then come back here if you lose to egg us on some more ?

Either file or don't .

 

[You Are Guilty]

Look, your best bet is to head over to small claims, file your case, and when the trial date comes up, make sure you do NOT ask for it to be heard by a judge (i.e. just say "ready" to get an arbitrator). They're probably your best shot for getting some sort of 50-50/split-the-baby decision.

It probably doesn't hurt to dress all slutty, too.

 

[sduves]

Did you even look at the link of " clean Hands " , and did you even read, go ahead spend 20.00 bucks and some of your time to see what the Judge rules .

Either file or don't .

Yep I looked at the clean hands link - initially I didn't know the sublet was illegal though, until after I paid and got the keys. I didn't know I was participating in a wrongful act. Do you mean my wrong act later (re-subletting it) affected the initial sublet?

Sorry for so many questions.
Thanks