RE4 in '95, now a nurse wanting to get back in

[menetopali]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

In 1995 i was discharged from the Mairine Corps with an RE4, a General Discharge (Under Honorable Conditions) for a 'personality disorder - NOS', and a 'JFV7' classification. the NDRB denied my petition for an upgrade and noted that an RE-4 does not in and of itself bar me from re-entry into the service but every recruiter I've mentioned the RE4 to has told me it is not waiverable.

Since leaving the service I have completed a BA, become a Registered Nurse, and will be completing my BSN in December. I would like to re-enter the service and serve my country as a nurse. While in the service I was young and stupid; I have matured significantly in the intervening ten years. I have also sought, and recieved, two medical opinions that state no personality disorder exists at the time of examination (they were presented to the NDRB). a little constructive advice and guidance would be appreciated as would any actionable information on RE4 waivers.

thank you.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

An RE-4 from the USMC for PD-NOS is a closed door that is why you didn't win your appeal. There is a price to pay for what you did while you were young and stupid and the discharge RE-4 PD-NOS was the lesser of 2 evils. Be grateful that you have been able to achieve a career as a RN, but no amount of psychiatrists stating that you no longer have PD-NOS is going to get you back in, nor is it a guarentee that you will be successful in this career.

 

[menetopali]

thank you for your prompt response. I had suspected that the Dx of PD-NOS with the associated RE-4 was in fact a closed door given the recruiters' responses to my inquiry but the NDRB's statement to the contrary gave me some hope as did the one reversal of an RE-4 by the BCMR (well within the three year time frame) of which I am personally aware. I understand that actions in one's youth can continue to have repercussions throughout one's life and while dissipointed, I can accept that reality.

"Young and Stupid" refers to a level of maturity, not commission of felonious acts, possesion or use of illegal substances, or failure to pay debts owed (three things I've noted on this board as leading to the other of the two evils that you referred to). I can only presume that the "lesser of two evils" statement reflects your assumption that a PD-NOS Dx was the only alternative to a Courts Martial in my case and that the PD-NOS Dx was a punishment in lieu of some other adverse action. Whether that is or is not true is outside of my knowledge and experience base though I suspect there were more than these two options available.

Just as no medical opinion will guarantee success in any endeavor and certainly not guarantee success in a nursing career, a medical opinion of PD-NOS from the military will not guarantee, or often predict, failure in nursing as a career field (or failure in any career field outside of government). I am aware of three other individuals with the same Dx from the military in healthcare. A physician and two nurses (all three were enlisted when "diagnosed". I also know several others outside of healthcare, one of which got his RE-4 'corrected' by the BCMR. I have yet to meet a single individual with PD as a primary diagnosis outside of the military (I know several patients with it as an additional Dx with another mental disorder).

Contrary to your apparent belief that I recieved some kind of benefit from the service that permitted me to apply for, get accepted into, and complete nursing school; I did not. I'm not sure why I should be "grateful" that I have been able to "achieve a career as an RN" any more than you should be "grateful" to achieve the career that you have chosen. This career was not given to me by the grace of the Marine Corps (I was an autobody mechanic for them) but by a conscious effort to pick myself up and go on to other things. I spent time experiencing life and growing up before becoming an RN and made a deliberate effort to improve myself and my circumstances.

Again thank you for your prompt and candid response. Any constructive advice and guidance for the future, is still appreciated.

 

[menetopali]

is the general concensus that the PD-NOS with an associated RE-4 is an insurmountable obstacle to re-entry into the service? Or is there hope?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The Navy & USMC each handle this Dx differently. In general, military members with personality disorders are able to conform to the standards and requirements of their branch and a diagnosis of a personality disorder doesn't lead to administrative separation, with the exception of BPD. Pragmatically insofar as the USMC is concerned Marines with this PD do not have stable performance and thus are discharged before it becomes a serious problem.

Military members with this DX fall into these general categories, those with/or associated with Legal problems you mentioned, they have the disorder or possible Disorders such as Asperger's, bipolar, OCD, ADHD that may present with BPD traits and lack of perception of appropriate behavior. Because these traits may be exacerbated during times of stress and are very difficult to treat they become problematic in a military setting. BPD may not manifest in civilian life depending on the stress and state of interpersonal relationships and in some cases may in time become worse. Some military members who do manage to adapt in the military cannot adapt to civilian life, this is another reason for administrative discharges, because if the Marine is allowed to stay in and restricted to a narrow range of work or exposure to stress, then the USMC ends up paying for lifelong disability care once they can no longer adapt appropriately for a disability or pre existing disorder.

I know of a case where a Marine with BPD got her Discharge in order to avoid prosecution for actions taken with her boyfriend and AWOL, couldn't adapt to life in the civilian world and stalked one of the civilian psychiatrists who evaluated her at the VA hospital making the lives of hundreds of people miserable, while never acknowledging she had a problem. She even cohersed the psychiatrist to write a letter stating she had no psychiatric disorders even though she was clearly seriously mentally ill. This was over a period of 20+ years!

Depending on the background check, you understand this DX can affect your career and that is why you want it upgraded, also if and or when you show symptoms it may become an issue. Not everyone in the civilian workd understands the implications, as long as they see the words, honorable many will assume it is an "honorable" as opposed to "general" discharge.