• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Reasonable reimbursement?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

Orebell

Member
What is the name of your state? Oregon

I have a friend (75 years old) and a his brother who is 72 years old. Younger brother is sick and in a nursing home. Older brother has power of attorney. In the POA document, it says that the executor or who ever has the power of attorney can be reimbursed for reasonable expenses.

The question is what are reasonable expenses? For example, the older brother has spent many hours cleaning out the younger brothers trailer to get it ready for sale. Can older brother be reimbursed for the time spent cleaning out the trailer? If so, what would be considered reasonable?

Another example would be the older brother went down to California to sell younger brothers house. Older brother was reimbursed for plane, car rental, motel, and gas, but what about his time that he spent dealing with real estate agent and cleaning out house?
 


S

seniorjudge

Guest
Orebell said:
What is the name of your state? Oregon

I have a friend (75 years old) and a his brother who is 72 years old. Younger brother is sick and in a nursing home. Older brother has power of attorney. In the POA document, it says that the executor or who ever has the power of attorney can be reimbursed for reasonable expenses.

The question is what are reasonable expenses? For example, the older brother has spent many hours cleaning out the younger brothers trailer to get it ready for sale. Can older brother be reimbursed for the time spent cleaning out the trailer? If so, what would be considered reasonable?

Another example would be the older brother went down to California to sell younger brothers house. Older brother was reimbursed for plane, car rental, motel, and gas, but what about his time that he spent dealing with real estate agent and cleaning out house?

Reasonable expenses are really just that: expenses that are reasonable.

For example, if whoever cleaned out the trailer wants $7 per hour plus reimbursement for cleaning supplies, that would be exceptionally reasonable.

If he wanted $100 because he had to miss Judge Judy, that would not be reasonable.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
If he wanted $100 because he had to miss Judge Judy, that would not be reasonable.
Agree. The reasonable amount per hour of missing Judge Judy is about $40.00 :D



Orebell, just what is your vested interest in all this?
 

Orebell

Member
Vested interest

[Orebell, just what is your vested interest in all this?]

Actually it is a little bit complicated. There are these two brothers, one is 75 and the other is 72. The older brother has the POA for the younger brother, who is in a nursing home. The older brother who is handling the younger brothers affairs complains a lot that he has been spending money on handing the younger brothers affairs. I told the older brother he should get reimbursed not only for his expenses such as gas, food, etc, but he should get reimbursed for his time as well.

For example, the younger brother has a single wide mobile home that has not been lived in a year and never will be again by the younger brother. The older brother has been trying to sell it. However, before it can be sold, it needed to e cleaned up. It was a complete disaster. I don't know how one man accumulated that much junk in such a small space. The older brother and I have made 6 trips (about an hour one way) and then spent most of the day sorting through stuff, giving stuff away, throwing stuff away, and cleaning the place. I told the older brother he should get reimbursed for the hours spent cleaning the place. The way I look at it is if the older brother did not do the work but hired someone, he would have to pay them. So what is the difference if he pays some one else or himself? I say none. So get reimbursed even if it is just minimum wage.

Where is gets complicated is here. As I said I have been helping the older brother deal with the younger brothers affairs. I know both guys pretty well and I started off helping because I really wanted to help the younger brother. As I have become more and more wrapped up in helping out of my own free will, one thing has become really really clear. That is that the older brother really has not done anything to really help the younger brother at all. Don't get me wrong the older brother has done some things, but nothing major like I have done.

To give you an example. The younger brother has some serious tax situations out there. One such situation has been where in 1990 he did not file a tax return. Actually he has not filed a tax return period since the 1980's going forward. However in 1990, the younger brother sold a house. The entire gain of the house was tagged as income. We are talking $190,000. He was taxed on that amount and never paid it. The result was the IRS slapped a lien on another house the younger brother owned and when it was sold last year, they took $50,000 from him. Well as it turns out, had the younger brother filed his tax return for 1990, he would have owed no tax at all on the house. Anyway, I am the one who contacted the IRS and did all the leg work and then once I discovered what happened, I filled out the tax return and sent it in. Hopefully, the younger brother will get most of that $50,000 back. Another situation is for tax year 2003. Since younger brother did not file tax returns, he traded appx $80,000 worth of stocks in 2003. The IRS wanted that return filed or they were going to tax him. I did all the work, going through some 250 stock trades for 2003 to figure out what was owed. It turns out the younger brother only owed $400 in taxes. I spent hours entering those stock trades for 2003 and then completed the tax return. The older brother did nothing. I did the same thing for 2002, 2001 and 2000 although those were on a much smaller scale. The older brother did nothing. The younger brother has about $20,000 in additional taxes due or paid already. I am working on 1992, 1988 and 1989 to hopefully reduce any taxes being owed or get back money that was paid last year via the liens on his house. Again, the older brother has done nothing.

I think about 6 months into helping the younger brother, I realized that the older brother would not do anything. The question I asked is who would take care of these things if the older brother would not do it. The answer is no one. There is no family to speak of. At least none close enough to do the work that needs to be done. There is no spouse and no children to speak of either. Someone had to do something or this man would loose pretty much everything he has.

The older brother claims that the reason he has not done some of these things is because he does not know how. I told him that if he does not know how, then hire a pro. He does not want to do that because that would be taking part of his brothers money. My answer was if something is not done, your brother will lose everything. I don't think he believed me. However, I just could not sit back and let it happen. I had to do something. The things talked about are only part of what I have done for the younger brother but there is no need to share all I have done.

I think where it gets complicated is when I hear the older brother complain that he has no money and has put put his own money out for his brother, I suggest to him to get reimbursed for real expenses as well as time, I feel like I should be getting reimbursed as well. Hey, if the younger brother can get reimbursed for his time and he has done virtually nother, why shouldn't I?

I started off helping the younger brother with no expectations at all. My goal was to help salvage as much as I could for the younger brother. He may need it for medical care, who knows. It has been a challenge to get things accomplished for the younger brother and it feels good to have some success. However, when the older brother started complaing about money, when I have put in 10 times the amount of time he has, I am starting to get bitter. I have never asked for a penny to be reimbursed for my time.

I have come to the conclusion that the older brother should not have power of attorney over his brother. Of course, I really have nothing to say about that, but that is the way I feel.

Anyway, sorry for the long post.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
I said vested - not vented.

I have come to the conclusion that the older brother should not have power of attorney over his brother. Of course, I really have nothing to say about that, but that is the way I feel.
Not true.
I think about 6 months into helping the younger brother, I realized that the older brother would not do anything. The question I asked is who would take care of these things if the older brother would not do it. The answer is no one. There is no family to speak of.
Do you or do you not want this huge responsibility?

Without some legal authorization, how did/are you handling the IRS affairs of the ill brother?

If older brother does not pay himself for his work, that's his problem not yours.
 

Orebell

Member
Update

[Do you or do you not want this huge responsibility?]

Yes, I think I have went this far, I might as well go all the way. No one else is going to do it for this guy. He is a really nice guy who made some bad decisions in his life. Maybe it was on purpose, maybe it was because of all the various medications. I don't know. Either way, the guy cannot take care of his problems. Isn't that what good friends are supposed to do?

[Without some legal authorization, how did/are you handling the IRS affairs of the ill brother?]

I do have power of attorney to deal with the IRS.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Hire an Elder Law attorney that does guardianships/conservatorships and petition to be ill brother's conservator/guardian of estate. Older brother will have the opportunity to contest at the court hearing. Demonstrate older brother's ineptness at handling ill brother's estate affairs. Let older brother be guardian/conservator of person and health care surrogate over his own brother unless he does not want to be.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top