Receiving Gift then they want it Back!

[quincy]

You can purchase a new laptop for a relatively small sum of money.

If the friend pushes the issue, it can be financially smartest to give the laptop back, let him/her take care of the remaining cost of the purchase, and go out and buy yourself a new one.

But I think it unlikely it will get to the lawsuit stage. It could ... but probably won't.

 

[NeilTheCop]

You can purchase a new laptop for a relatively small sum of money.

If the friend pushes the issue, it can be financially smartest to give the laptop back, let him/her take care of the remaining cost of the purchase, and go out and buy yourself a new one.

But I think it unlikely it will get to the lawsuit stage. It could ... but probably won't.

Don't forget to erase the hard drive, not just a file delete but a full low level format that erases and overwrites the drive completely. If your former friend is as bad as he/she seems any of your personal info left on that hard drive will come back and bite you.
I used to recover 'erased' files and was often amazed at what I found.

 

[LdiJ]

Blowing hot air as to return of a gift is just that; hot air .

IF and when you ex friend files a legal action as to the gift/loan involved, REPOST

THere may be a presumption under state law that absent a record or an available in court witness to the contrary , that it is a loan of the laptop . Your burden to prove it was a gift....take your witness to court IF it goes that far.

My impression is that at worst you will need to return a year old laptop .

I think its more likely that if there is a presumption, the presumption would be that it was a gift absent evidence to the contrary.

 

[quincy]

I think its more likely that if there is a presumption, the presumption would be that it was a gift absent evidence to the contrary.

But it's not. Legally that presumption holds for family members and spouses.

 

[LdiJ]

But it's not. Legally that presumption holds for family members and spouses.

I know you said that, but should the OP be sued for the laptop that would be putting the burden of proof on the defendant rather than the plaintiff and that is not legally sound.

Would you care to show a cite for your presumption that its not a gift if its not a family member?

 

[quincy]

I know you said that, but should the OP be sued for the laptop that would be putting the burden of proof on the defendant rather than the plaintiff and that is not legally sound.

Would you care to show a cite for your presumption that its not a gift if its not a family member?

Here's one (but from Illinois not Missouri). If I find a good case from Missouri, I will add it later.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-court-of-appeals/1522703.html

 

[adjusterjack]

Was this a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship and know the romance is over?

 

[quincy]

Boyfriend/girlfriend would not change the legal presumption.

 

[LdiJ]

Here's one (but from Illinois not Missouri). If I find a good case from Missouri, I will add it later.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-court-of-appeals/1522703.html

I really don't find that to be on point. That case was about a 27,000 cash transaction which is not the same as giving someone a laptop or any other item that would fall within the cost range of a laptop. It would be fairly rare for someone to make a cash gift of 27,000, it would be fairly common for people to make gifts in the cost range of a laptop.

Its also not a Missouri case so it wouldn't be valid case law for Missouri...although something like this would not arise to that level anyway.

 

[quincy]

I really don't find that to be on point. That case was about a 27,000 cash transaction which is not the same as giving someone a laptop or any other item that would fall within the cost range of a laptop. It would be fairly rare for someone to make a cash gift of 27,000, it would be fairly common for people to make gifts in the cost range of a laptop.

Its also not a Missouri case so it wouldn't be valid case law for Missouri...although something like this would not arise to that level anyway.

Substitute "laptop" for "$27,000" and reread the case. Concentrate on the legal presumptions discussed.

It is up to the defendant to show with clear and convincing evidence that the laptop was a gift if the plaintiff is claiming it was a loan or a debt to be repaid.

Giving/delivering property to a friend and acceptance of the property by the friend are only two parts to showing the property was a gift. The final and key element to showing the property is a gift is the intent of the donor.

 

[LdiJ]

Substitute "laptop" for "$27,000" and reread the case. Concentrate on the legal presumptions discussed.

It is up to the defendant to show with clear and convincing evidence that the laptop was a gift if the plaintiff is claiming it was a loan or a debt to be repaid.

Giving/delivering property to a friend and acceptance of the property by the friend are only two parts to showing the property was a gift. The final and key element to showing the property is a gift is the intent of the donor.

Sorry Quincy, but I think that you are totally off on this one. I strongly recommend that the OP either stand back and wait and see what his former friend does, or that the OP consult a local attorney.

You are specifically stating that the burden of proof is on the defendant and that does not hold legally, nor even does the case you cited require that.

 

[quincy]

Sorry Quincy, but I think that you are totally off on this one. I strongly recommend that the OP either stand back and wait and see what his former friend does, or that the OP consult a local attorney.

You are specifically stating that the burden of proof is on the defendant and that does not hold legally, nor even does the case you cited require that.

Sorry, LdiJ, but I think you are totally off on this one.

And I am not convinced you read (or understood) the case.

Show ME something that supports you are right. Case law would be nice. Otherwise, you are simply arguing based on nothing.

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry, LdiJ, but I think you are totally off on this one.

And I am not convinced you read (or understood) the case.

Show ME something that supports you are right. Case law would be nice. Otherwise, you are simply arguing based on nothing.

This is a perfect example of what I have a problem with you about.

Boogamgma, you are getting conflicting advice here. You really need to get advice from a local attorney or either just sit back and wait to see if the person who gifted you the laptop actually sues you.

 

[adjusterjack]

Boyfriend/girlfriend would not change the legal presumption.

No, it wouldn't but there could be something in the relationship that could help the defendant rebut the presumption. Presumptions are potentially rebuttable.

As for Missouri case decisions so many of them involve family members where there is a presumption of a gift unless there is clear and convincing evidence to the contrary.

I found one slight clue to the Missouri presumption when it doesn't involve family members.

In a case involving transfer of stock between family members the court wrote:

In the case of a transfer of stock to children or to persons considered "almost as children", Wahl, supra, 206 S.W.2d at 338, the law will raise a presumption of a gift from parent to child where it would not be presumed between strangers. Jones v. Jones, 201 S.W. 557 (Mo.App.1918); Wahl v. Wahl, supra; Napier v. Eigel, 350 Mo. 111, 164 S.W.2d 908 (1942); Gillespie v. Gillespie, 289 S.W. 579 (Mo.1926); Rumsey v. Otis, 133 Mo. 85, 34 S.W. 551, 553 (1896).

(Emphasis mine.)

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12079692060406896519&q=presumption+of+gift&hl=en&as_sdt=4,26

However, the Missouri Supreme Court has consistently ruled that:

The essentials of an inter vivos gift of personal property were stated in Thomas v. Thomas, 107 Mo. 459, 18 S.W. 27, 1. c. 28, quoted with approval in Trautz v. Lemp, 329 Mo. 580, 46 S.W.2d 135, 1. c. 144, and more recently in In re Estate of Simms, Mo., 423 S.W.2d 758, 1. c. 762 [2]. They are: "* * * a present intention to make a gift on the part of the donor, a delivery of the property by the donor to the donee, and an acceptance by the donee, whose ownership takes effect immediately and absolutely."

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2605266011614723032&q=presumption+of+gift&hl=en&as_sdt=4,26

In the OP's case the friend's "burden" may involve nothing more than citing a Missouri precedent that ceding possession of the laptop to a friend was not a gift but, without any clear and convincing evidence that it was not a gift, that assertion can be easily rebutted by the OP showing that the elements of a gift were present at the time the gift was made.

The friend's case is further weakened by waiting almost a year to ask for the return of the laptop. Laches and/or waiver may also be issues in favor of the OP.

 

[quincy]

This is a perfect example of what I have a problem with you about.

Boogamgma, you are getting conflicting advice here. You really need to get advice from a local attorney or either just sit back and wait to see if the person who gifted you the laptop actually sues you.

What problem, LdiJ?

You asked me to provide a case to support what I said. I DID!

I asked you to provide something to support what you said. YOU CAN'T, WON'T and DIDN'T.

Don't you DARE pull this "conflicting advice" bit. It is a conflict between the law as presented by me (with case law and legal knowledge to back up what I say) and NOTHING presented by you.

Thank you, adjusterjack.