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Relocation Repayment - No Contract Signed

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blankreg

Junior Member
#1
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I will be terminating my employment after 6 months. My employer provided me with relocation assistance (less than $5K). They emailed me the relocation policy document witch does state that I will be required to repay the full amount of the relocation benefit within 30 days if I voluntarily leave within a year. It also states that I am to sign the document acknowledging and agreeing to the repayment and that no benefits will be given until I sign.

I tried reaching out to my HR rep for a week or two in order to discuss the move. They eventually got back to me and gave me the contact of a third party coordinator to assist with the move. The move went successfully and the benefits were paid, however I was never asked to sign (nor did I offer to sign) the payback agreement.

I'm not necessarily saying I won't repay but I wanted to know what my legal obligation were...
A) Do I legally have to repay since I never signed the agreement? Or is the fact that they sent me the document and I accepted the benefits enough to make me legally responsible to repay?
B) Can I use this to extend the payback schedule past the 30 days - again, as I never signed the agreement that I would repay in 30 days.

Thank you!
 


#2
A) Do I legally have to repay since I never signed the agreement?
You don't have to sign a contract to have a contract and you definitely have a contract.

Or is the fact that they sent me the document and I accepted the benefits enough to make me legally responsible to repay?
Yes, that.

B) Can I use this to extend the payback schedule past the 30 days - again, as I never signed the agreement that I would repay in 30 days.
You can try. But, again, you don't have to sign a contract to have a contract.

If you go past the 30 days, you risk a lawsuit and (win or lose) all of the unpleasant consequences a lawsuit may entail.

I suggest, when you give your notice, that you be up front about needing a payment plan.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
#3
You don't have to sign a contract to have a contract and you definitely have a contract.



Yes, that.



You can try. But, again, you don't have to sign a contract to have a contract.

If you go past the 30 days, you risk a lawsuit and (win or lose) all of the unpleasant consequences a lawsuit may entail.

I suggest, when you give your notice, that you be up front about needing a payment plan.
I agree that you don't necessarily have to have a signed document to have a contract, but I do not agree that he definitively has a contract. I think that none of us are in a position to state anything definite, one way or another.

I believe that he needs a consult with a local attorney who can review what paperwork he has and give a more thorough opinion.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
#4
He accepted the benefits that were a condition of repayment within 30 days. I think that's going to pretty much do it for him.
 
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blankreg

Junior Member
#5
He accepted the benefits that were a condition of repayment within 30 days. I think that's going to pretty much do it for him.
I specifically said in the OP that I wasn't necessarily trying to get out of paying it. I just wanted to go into the conversation with as much information as possible - it's a little thing called leverage.

Thank you LdiJ for the suggestion. I'll think about possibly contacting a lawyer if i want to go that route. All depends on how the next two weeks go. I was unsure of how forcible a "contract" is that I didn't sign or even verbally agree to.

Again, I AM NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING TO GET OUT OF PAYING IT. I want to use it as leverage to make sure I get everything I am owed (and was agreed upon) at time of departure. If everything goes smoothly then I will repay. (i can't believe i actually have to put this in!)
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
#6
By your own admission, you're looking to get out of paying under the agreed-upon schedule of 30 days.

Can I use this to extend the payback schedule past the 30 days - again, as I never signed the agreement that I would repay in 30 days.

You said nothing to suggest that everything YOU are owed has not or will not be provided - and what is it you think you're owed after 6 months anyway?
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
#7
I specifically said in the OP that I wasn't necessarily trying to get out of paying it. I just wanted to go into the conversation with as much information as possible - it's a little thing called leverage.

Thank you LdiJ for the suggestion. I'll think about possibly contacting a lawyer if i want to go that route. All depends on how the next two weeks go. I was unsure of how forcible a "contract" is that I didn't sign or even verbally agree to.

Again, I AM NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING TO GET OUT OF PAYING IT. I want to use it as leverage to make sure I get everything I am owed (and was agreed upon) at time of departure. If everything goes smoothly then I will repay. (i can't believe i actually have to put this in!)
They hired you. They invested in you. But you want "leverage" as you give them the shaft. Because that *is* what you're doing. You most definitely *are* trying to weasel out of it, otherwise there would be no reason for posting here.

Don't get me wrong: it's a free country, and you can work for whoever you want. But you willingly relocated to work for these folks, you accepted money for that move, and then you changed your mind and decided that there were greener pastures elsewhere. There are consequences for that.

cbg is very knowledgeable on HR related subjects.
 
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blankreg

Junior Member
#8
By your own admission, you're looking to get out of paying under the agreed-upon schedule of 30 days.,
From OP: "I'm not necessarily saying I won't repay but I wanted to know what my legal obligation were... "

You said nothing to suggest that everything YOU are owed has not or will not be provided - and what is it you think you're owed after 6 months anyway?
You're right, I haven't. It's not relevant and frankly none of your business.

If you have anything constructive to say please do so. If you're just looking to troll than don't bother as I won't be responding to you anymore.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
#9
If all you want is people agreeing with you, go to a support group.

cbg, who is very knowledgeable, gave you very correct legal answers.

The person whose response you liked gave a personal opinion, not a legal one.

It is not "toxic" to be told the truth: you want something that you do not deserve. Your employment benefits included very standard clauses that you now wish to ignore.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
#10
You have my opinion; nothing about it has changed.

Except, maybe, to strengthen my conviction that you are at least looking for a way to weasel out of the 30 day payment schedule, if not (necessarily) payment itself.

Telling you something you don't want to hear is not trolling.
 
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#11
Last edited by m ******; 03-14-2018 at 01:27 PM.
Wow! I'm completely shocked! I came here for a simple question - not to be attacked. Not only that, but now i find that the insulting, and frankly, bigoted statement(s) made by one of the members has been "edited" out by the moderator. Not only from the attacker's post but from my quoted reply as well.

Which means the moderator intentionally manipulated the posts to make one of their more senior members seem like an innocent victim and that I was just overreacting. My only saving grace is that the posts show they were edited.

I'm sure this will be deleted by the moderator at some point but until then I'm leaving this up as a warning to any one who is new to this site.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
#12
I am NOT commenting on your moral stance....but if the employer wrote a deal that required your signature as a condition to creating the deal and failed to get your signature AND if as you post it there was never a verbal acceptance of the deal...the employer may not have a slam dunk to show a contract was in place .thier own problem...lots of people get moved wo payback contracts. Generally performance goes a long way towards ratification ...but paying you in express contradiction of thier own terms strike me as clouding thier potential points.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
#13
If the responses you've received in this thread are what you consider to be "attacked" you need to get out more.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
#14
unrelated to your question...but if I was your next potential employer and I got wind of this matter...I'd likely put your offer on iceberg headed out to sea.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
#15
Wow! I'm completely shocked! I came here for a simple question - not to be attacked. Not only that, but now i find that the insulting, and frankly, bigoted statement(s) made by one of the members has been "edited" out by the moderator. Not only from the attacker's post but from my quoted reply as well.

Which means the moderator intentionally manipulated the posts to make one of their more senior members seem like an innocent victim and that I was just overreacting. My only saving grace is that the posts show they were edited.

I'm sure this will be deleted by the moderator at some point but until then I'm leaving this up as a warning to any one who is new to this site.
Being told that you are incorrect in your reasoning is not an "attack".

You tacitly accepted the terms by accepting the money and benefits after being informed of the conditions.

You are grasping at loopholes and calling it "leverage". What would be "leverage" is if you had a compelling reason to leave, due to something the employer did wrong, and it would potentially cost them more to have their laundry aired than waive the reimbursement.
 
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