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Required to pay the Owner or anyone for the Unified Fraudulent transfer act?

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Nortonghosthunters

Active Member
My question is about fraudulent transfer under the Unified Fraudulent transfer act ( UFTA).

The requirement is that fair market value is paid. However my question is does it require the entity you are paying actually be the owner of the asset or can you pay anyone fair market value(even if they have no right to sell the asset) ?

For example, if Company B wants to buy Company A's assets, do they have to pay company A for those assets or can they pay someone who has no rights to sell the assets for them instead?
 


Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
My question is about fraudulent transfer under the Unified Fraudulent transfer act ( UFTA).
It is the Uniform Fraudulent Transfers Act (UFTA), and that Act has been recently renamed the Uniform Voidable Transfers Act (UVTA), though it will take time for states to update their statutes to reflect that. It matters in which state the litigation would occur as not every state has adopted the UFTA/UVTA and among those that have there are differences in some states in some of the provisions.

The idea of the fraudulent conveyance laws generally is to provide a creditor a remedy when a debtor has assets that the debtor transfers to someone else (often a related party) for significantly less than the fair market value (FMV) of the asset in order to defeat the creditor. So the issue is whether the debtor got something of value (doesn't necessarily have to be cash) equal to the FMV of the asset that the debtor transferred. If the answer is no, then the creditor may seek to have the transfer voided and the asset returned to the debtor so that the creditor may attach the asset and use it to satisfy the debt. Note that the UFTA/UFVA only matters if the transfer is made at time that the debtor is insolvent or if the transfer itself makes the debtor insolvent. Insolvent means the debtors debts exceeds its assets. If the debtor has more than enough assets to pay its debts then whether it makes a transfer of an asset for less than FMV doesn't matter because creditors still have plenty of other assets to go after to collect its debts.


However my question is does it require the entity you are paying actually be the owner of the asset or can you pay anyone fair market value(even if they have no right to sell the asset) ?
I'm not sure what you asking about here. The focus of the UFTA is on an insolvent debtor and what it got in return for the asset it transferred. You are focusing on whomever is buying the asset, and that really isn't what the Act is about. If you describe the transaction you have in mind I can tell you if it might raise an issue under the UFTA/UVTA. Remember, though, the debtor transferring the asset has to be insolvent at the time or rendered insolvent by the transfer for the Act to come into play.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
In an effort to hopefully prevent the spawn of even more threads on the subject, after reviewing those other threads quincy linked, I'll explain to you how the federal tax lien (FTL) works and how that relates to the situation you described.

The federal tax lien arises at the time of assessment of tax on all property and rights to property of the taxpayer if the tax is not paid. The IRS need not file anything; the FTL arises automatically by operation of law. The lien does not make the IRS an owner of any of the taxpayer's property. It does, however, give the IRS the right to take the property and sell it to apply to the tax liability that lien covers. While the IRS need not file anything to have that right against the taxpayer, it does need to file a notice of federal tax lien (NFTL) in order to enforce that lien against certain transferees of the taxpayer. The NFTL, once filed, puts the public on notice of the lien and thus buyers/transferees of the property would know that the lien will follow the property if they buy it/take it from the taxpayer. A buyer would typically want that lien off the property at the time of the sale. If the sale will fully pay the lien off, then that would solve the problem. If the sale wouldn't fully pay off the lien, then the buyer can apply for a certificate of discharge to remove that one property from the lien. To get the discharge, the IRS must be satisfied that it is getting its interest out of the property. That may or may not be the fair market value (FMV) of the property.

Ok, so as I understand it you asked about the following situation: Company A has a machine that is worth (FMV), let's say, $5,000. It transfers that machine to Company B for nothing. At the time of the transfer, there is a FTL against Company A for $100,000 and a NFTL giving the public notice of that lien was already recorded at the time of the transfer. Company A was also insolvent at the time of the transfer. Company B then seeks a certificate of discharge to get the machine out from under the FTL. The IRS agrees to take $5000 to issue the certificate of discharge, representing the FMV of the machine.

You want to know if Company B paying the IRS would affect a fraudulent conveyance claim by a creditor A. In this case it would. That's because Company A gets the benefit of the $5,000 that Company B paid to get the discharge — it reduces what Company A owes the IRS. And since the $5,000 that is applied to Company A's tax liability represents FMV, there is no fraudulent conveyance claim for the creditor to pursue. It is no different than had Company B paid the $5,000 to Company A for the machine and then Company A then paid the $5,000 to the IRS. The end result is the same in both situations. And the latter clearly does not give rise to a fraudulent conveyance situation.

Now let's suppose the same facts as before but instead of paying the IRS $5,000 for the certificate of discharge, Company B only pays $500. (The IRS wouldn't give a certificate of discharge for that amount in these facts, but for purposes of illustration let's say it does anyway.) Now Company A is only getting $500 credit towards the taxes for the machine it transferred. So in this situation Company A has only gotten $500 for a machine it transferred to Company worth $5,000 at time it was insolvent. A creditor of A might well have a fraudulent conveyance claim to make there since the end result is that the machine was transferred to Company B for significantly less than FMV. But would it be worth it for the creditor to do that? The result of voiding the transfer under the fraudulent conveyance statute is that the asset returns to Company A. But Company A has a FTL against it for $99,500 (after credit for the $500 Company B paid for the discharge). When the asset is returned to Company A, the FTL reattaches to the asset. If the creditor does not have lien priority over the IRS then there is no value for the creditor in the machine — the IRS lien would have first claim to it leaving nothing for the creditor. So the creditor would be wasting its time and money going after it.
 

Nortonghosthunters

Active Member
Thank you for providing such a well though out response and congratulation on fitting so many pieces of the puzzle together from other post.

You have gotten surprisingly a lot of points right but its a little difference than you described. Let me ask a few follow up question and tell you more about the story.

1. Company A receiving benefit from Company B filing a certificate of discharge is established law or personal opinion? Company A was dead at that point, no employees, no office, no business, nothing left but a name. It was dissolved shortly after( Shortly after company B opens its doors doing the same thing) . I don't see them receiving any benefit from this unless what you are saying is technically speaking from established law.

2. Company B did not filed for a certificate of discharge at the time it took the equipment. First company B took all the equipment for $0, then months after this was done and lawsuit were being threaten against them did they have a knee jerk reaction and file the certificate of discharge.
It was done after the fact that they had been caught.

3. I do not know who filed the certificate of discharge. It could have been the owner of both companies personally or via one of his other companies he owns. I'm not sure if it matters if Company B files the certificate of discharge or not?

4. The so called " fair market value" was based off of an evaluation from a company who business address traced back to some guy's garage on a small house in a bad part of town. I'm not sure this is to be trusted.

5. At this point, Company A is nothing left. Where would the assets revert back to?

6. My goal is not to attach a lien to the assets and have it revert back to company A only to get in line behind the IRS for a company that no longer exist but rather to prove successor liability and Fraudulent transfer is one of the 4 exception to prove it.( Only 1 is needed). Company B is rolling in money based on the assets creating the money making engine from companies A without any of its debts.

7. Is there anyway to verify a certificate of discharge is real and not fabricated in Photoshop? This company is not above shady or illegal behavior especially when there is serious money on the line.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Do you presently have a judgment against the company? Are you presently in litigation against the company?
 

Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
TM, I applaud your patience in answering HotelSwatTeams aka Nortonghosthunters' question, especially since she thought it was a good idea to start approximately 1,287,435 threads instead of just telling us what the situation is.

HSW/NGH, why in the world won't you just lay out the facts instead of trying out all of these scenarios?
 

Nortonghosthunters

Active Member
TM, I applaud your patience in answering HotelSwatTeams aka Nortonghosthunters' question, especially since she thought it was a good idea to start approximately 1,287,435 threads instead of just telling us what the situation is.

HSW/NGH, why in the world won't you just lay out the facts instead of trying out all of these scenarios?
Maybe my next question should be about defamation,Slander and libel on that bit of fake news you provided. I understand Melania trump just won a lawsuit in this regard.
 

quincy

Senior Member
It sounds past time that you find an attorney in your area to assist you, Nortonghosthunters. This advice is not meant to discount what you believe to be legitimate legal issue
Maybe my next question should be about defamation,Slander and libel on that bit of fake news you provided. I understand Melania trump just won a lawsuit in this regard.
I see no defamation in what has been said.

You will be more comfortable on this forum if you ignore the posts you don't like and take away with you what you find helpful (if anything:)).

We are all struggling with your legal questions because of the way you have laid them out. If/when you see an attorney in your area, I recommend you reduce your issue to the basics. The attorney will ask for more information if needed.
 

Nortonghosthunters

Active Member
It sounds past time that you find an attorney in your area to assist you, Nortonghosthunters. This advice is not meant to discount what you believe to be legitimate legal issue

I see no defamation in what has been said.

You will be more comfortable on this forum if you ignore the posts you don't like and take away with you what you find helpful (if anything:)).
Unfortunately, I have no many legal issues, I could probably use a full time attorney and have enough to keep him busy as a full time job.

By the way, not every question I ask is related to the same issue. Some are completely unrelated but still issues I am facing. .
 

quincy

Senior Member
Unfortunately, I have no many legal issues, I could probably use a full time attorney and have enough to keep him busy as a full time job.

By the way, not every question I ask is related to the same issue. Some are completely unrelated but still issues I am facing. .
I am sorry you are wrestling with so many legal issues.

Another suggestion: Concentrate on one legal problem at a time. You will drive yourself (and us :)) crazy if you bounce around from one to another.

Good luck.
 

Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
Maybe my next question should be about defamation,Slander and libel on that bit of fake news you provided. I understand Melania trump just won a lawsuit in this regard.
What fake news would that be, HSW/NGH? And pray tell, what was defamatory, slanderous, and/or libelous about my post?
 

Nortonghosthunters

Active Member
What fake news would that be, HSW/NGH? And pray tell, what was defamatory, slanderous, and/or libelous about my post?
Well for starters, where do you get 1,287,435 threads ? I see a question asking if a lien holder is considered an owner and a post asking if it matters who paid for the assets as it relates to Fraudulent transfer act and a few other unrelated issues.

There is no 1,287,435 threads
 

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