Required training without pay ?

[cenzo]

What is the name of your state? MA

I am employed full time Mon. - Fri. at an hourly wage with six others in my department. I am not a supervisor. My employer, a national company with more than 25,000 employees, requires I as well as the others in my department take a 7 hour CPR course without pay. The course is required to continue employment. The company is providing the instructor and the course is being held at my place of employment.

Can my employer require that I take the course without pay ?

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Cenzo

 

[CheeseBlotto]

Assuming you are non-exempt (not the same as paid hourly), they cannot require you to attend without paying you.

 

[justalayman]

Are you a member of a union? If so, your CBA would be the place to seek direction.

If not, then Cheeseblotto's advice sounds right to me.

 

[pattytx]

Doesn't make any difference. A union contract cannot include a clause that violates the FLSA for purposes of paying for time worked.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.27.htm
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.28.htm

 

[justalayman]

Doesn't make any difference. A union contract cannot include a clause that violates the FLSA for purposes of paying for time worked.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.27.htm
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.28.htm

Attendance is not voluntary, of course, if it is required by the
employer. It is not voluntary in fact if the employee is given to
understand or led to believe that his present working conditions or the
continuance of his employment would be adversely affected by
nonattendance.

I happen to be a member of a union and am required to obtain and maintain CPR and first aid training and certifications. Now I like to think that my own union would not pull the wool over my eyes, I suppose it would be possible. I do not receive pay for the training and I believe they are correct in not paying me for that time.

You see, by my contract, I have to maintain these cert's, even if I am unemployed. Now if this is to happen, whom is going to pay me for the training time??

Now you might also ask one of two questions; if I am not employed, how am I still an active member of the union ? or; if I am not employed, who is requiring me to maintain the cert's?

Well it's like this; I am a member of a union. It is not an "inside" union, which is what most folks think of with unions. My union has contracts with about 40 or 50 different companies that perform the same type of work. If I become unemployed, I am referred to another contractor (when work is available and according to the rules involved). So I could work for any of those contractors but still be under the same contract. Part of that contract states that I am to maintain the CPR and first aid cert's. As a matter of fact, I can be refused employment by any of the contractors if I do not have the cert's and I can be fired if I do not have them (if the current contractor/employer desires.)

So pattytx, are you saying that my union (which is one of the oldest unions in the country and a union of considerable size) is illegally requiring me to obtain and maintain these cert's by not paying me for the time required to obtain and maintain them? Now mind you, I am not employed by the union either. I would think that this requirement would be the same as any other educational requirement that an employee is required to achieve and update for employment in any occupation that reqires one.

So technically, the employer is not requiring the training, the contract is.

If so, I'll go and talk to them, if not, this is the situation I referred to in my post.

 

[eerelations]

Justalayman, I believe there's a distinct difference between a company saying "you have to keep your certs up to date in order to maintain your employment" and "you must attend training at this specific location, on this specific date, at this specific time, and for this specific duration or else you're fired."

 

[justalayman]

Justalayman, I believe there's a distinct difference between a company saying "you have to keep your certs up to date in order to maintain your employment" and "you must attend training at this specific location, on this specific date, at this specific time, and for this specific duration or else you're fired."

Not only do I risk termination, the place, time, and duration of the class are also determined for me as well.
To be specific it is the first tuesday and thursday of my birth month in the year that my certs expire with class starting at 7:00 p.m. until finished and at my local union's apprenticeship hall. Is that specific enough to warrant me to be paid? I still do not believe it does because of the situation that requires the training.

Now the other thing is that my certs have actually nothing to do with my vocation. There is no legal requirement for me to have these certs to practice my trade. .

Bottom line I was aftrer is, I do not believe it is illegal in the manner in which I am required to maintain my certs (I could be wrong). I merely asked the OP is they were a member of a union. Further questions would have been required to clarify if it was a situation similar to mine or not.

I did not intened to hijack the thread and get into my personal situation. It was in response to pattytx's post that a cba could not require an unpaid training program that I felt required the explanation in which I believe a cba could require an unpaid training course to be taken.

I was just trying to get to the root of the situation.

pattytx; this is not meant to be an arguementative post. I do believe a cba can require my training as such and without pay. If I am wrong, I welcome the correction.

 

[pattytx]

justalayman, CBAs CAN override certain overtime calculations. I am not aware of any exceptions, however, to working for free.