returned check fees from a merchant

[superdairyboy]

in the state of PA from the research I've done it states that a merchant can only charge $20
Here is a link to the law http://www.uslegalforms.com/lawdigest/badchecks.php/PA/PA-401N.htm

§ 4105. Bad checks.

..................(8) A service charge if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued. The service charge shall not exceed $20 unless the payee is charged fees in excess of $20 by financial institutions as a result of such bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money. If the payee is charged fees in excess of $20, then the service charge shall not exceed the actual amount of the fees.


I did visit our court house/ Law library and check for thr current Law and the service fee has not changed.
We bounced a check and was charged a $60 fee from the merchant.

We paid the bill and $20 as allowed by the law stated above. When we paid the bill we also sent along a copy of the law and a letter explaing why we only paid the amount we did. Also tried to explain to them via Phone that the $60 fee was illegal. Their responce was that it was not.
Just received our current bill and there is $40 outstanding balance. What I want to know is what we should do on our end.

2 things I want to know.

1. Are we reading the law incorrectly? does it not apply here?
2. What should we do? Not like we can sue. and I don't want it going to a collection agency.

The only two things I can think of doing.

1. Hire a Lawyer to sent an offical letter, and then sue for legal fees.
2. Pay the entire thing. Then send another letter stating they over charged and see if we get a responce and then if we do not then sue them for charging an illegal returned check fee.

any other ideas anyone.

Thanks
Brian

 

[Happy Trails]

in the state of PA from the research I've done it states that a merchant can only charge $20
Here is a link to the law http://www.uslegalforms.com/lawdigest/badchecks.php/PA/PA-401N.htm

§ 4105. Bad checks.

..................(8) A service charge if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued. The service charge shall not exceed $20 unless the payee is charged fees in excess of $20 by financial institutions as a result of such bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money. If the payee is charged fees in excess of $20, then the service charge shall not exceed the actual amount of the fees.


I did visit our court house/ Law library and check for thr current Law and the service fee has not changed.
We bounced a check and was charged a $60 fee from the merchant.

We paid the bill and $20 as allowed by the law stated above. When we paid the bill we also sent along a copy of the law and a letter explaing why we only paid the amount we did. Also tried to explain to them via Phone that the $60 fee was illegal. Their responce was that it was not.
Just received our current bill and there is $40 outstanding balance. What I want to know is what we should do on our end.

2 things I want to know.

1. Are we reading the law incorrectly? does it not apply here?
2. What should we do? Not like we can sue. and I don't want it going to a collection agency.

The only two things I can think of doing.

1. Hire a Lawyer to sent an offical letter, and then sue for legal fees.
2. Pay the entire thing. Then send another letter stating they over charged and see if we get a responce and then if we do not then sue them for charging an illegal returned check fee.

any other ideas anyone.

Thanks
Brian

How old are the checks that bounced?

Did the merchant have it displayed as to what the bounced fee would be?

 

[superdairyboy]

Happened in April and no there is no statement of a returned check fee on the bills.

Brian

 

[Happy Trails]

1. Are we reading the law incorrectly? does it not apply here?

1. No, your missing something.
2. (see below)

The law states that they can charge a fee not to exceed $20, UNLESS they are charged fees over that amount from the financial institution. If they were charged additional fees and it was more than $20, they can only charge the actual amount of the fees.

2. What should we do? Not like we can sue. and I don't want it going to a collection agency.

I don't know what they were charged for the bounced check.

They also would be allowed to tack on interest from the time of the bounced check, if the face value of the check was a lot (then the $60 may seem reasonable). If you pay the $40, then you would be done with it.

 

[superdairyboy]

Yes I did see the part about if they are charged a fee in excessive of $20 But when have you ever heard of a bank charging $40 for a returned check.
And we have already paid the bill

brian

 

[JETX]

I think you are misunderstood about the PA laws on bad checks.

There are two separate possible issues:
Civil Liability:
§ 8304. Damages in actions on bad checks.
(a) General rule.--In a civil action to recover damages and costs following a conviction for passing a bad check pursuant to 18 Pa.C.S. § 4105 (relating to bad checks) and failure to make full restitution, the payee shall, upon obtaining judgment, be entitled to recover damages in an amount equal to $100 or triple the amount for which the check was drawn, whichever is greater.

(b) Limitation.--Damages recovered under this section may not exceed by more than $500 the value of the check and shall be awarded only if:
1. the payee made written demand of the issuer for payment of the amount of the check not less than ten days before commencing the action; and
2. the issuer failed to tender to the payee, prior to commencement of the action, an amount of money not less than the amount demanded.

(c) Restriction.--Notwithstanding subsection (a), if partial restitution has been made, damages recovered under this section may not exceed triple the amount of the unpaid restitution.
Source: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/42.Cp.83A.html

Criminal Liability:
PA § 4105
(e) Costs.--Upon conviction under this section the sentence shall include an order for the issuer or passer to reimburse the payee or such other party as the circumstances may indicate for:
1. The face amount of the check.
2. Interest at the legal rate on the face amount of the check from the date of dishonor by the drawee.
3. A service charge not to exceed $20 if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued.
Source: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/18PA4105.html

 

[Happy Trails]

Yes I did see the part about if they are charged a fee in excessive of $20 But when have you ever heard of a bank charging $40 for a returned check.
And we have already paid the bill

brian

We have someone that is well educated on banking issues, but she is not on right now.

I did find this article:

http://www.bankfees.info/Notes and Quoteables.htm

 

[Happy Trails]

JETX, quick question.

On the civil penalty, the payee shall, upon obtaining judgment etc...

What would the merchant need to do to obtain judgement, is it similiar to a shoplifting, civil fine?

 

[Veronica1228]

We have someone that is well educated on banking issues, but she is not on right now.

Are you talking about me, or is my ego out of control again?

 

[JETX]

On the civil penalty, the payee shall, upon obtaining judgment etc...

What would the merchant need to do to obtain judgement, is it similiar to a shoplifting, civil fine?

The merchant would have to file a civil suit, and get a judgment, against the check writer.

 

[superdairyboy]

I think you are misunderstood about the PA laws on bad checks.

There are two separate possible issues:
Civil Liability:
§ 8304. Damages in actions on bad checks.
(a) General rule.--In a civil action to recover damages and costs following a conviction for passing a bad check pursuant to 18 Pa.C.S. § 4105 (relating to bad checks) and failure to make full restitution, the payee shall, upon obtaining judgment, be entitled to recover damages in an amount equal to $100 or triple the amount for which the check was drawn, whichever is greater.

(b) Limitation.--Damages recovered under this section may not exceed by more than $500 the value of the check and shall be awarded only if:
1. the payee made written demand of the issuer for payment of the amount of the check not less than ten days before commencing the action; and
2. the issuer failed to tender to the payee, prior to commencement of the action, an amount of money not less than the amount demanded.

(c) Restriction.--Notwithstanding subsection (a), if partial restitution has been made, damages recovered under this section may not exceed triple the amount of the unpaid restitution.
Source: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/42.Cp.83A.html

Criminal Liability:
PA § 4105
(e) Costs.--Upon conviction under this section the sentence shall include an order for the issuer or passer to reimburse the payee or such other party as the circumstances may indicate for:
1. The face amount of the check.
2. Interest at the legal rate on the face amount of the check from the date of dishonor by the drawee.
3. A service charge not to exceed $20 if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued.
Source: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/18PA4105.html

Yes there are 2 Issues but that was never a civil action, So if I understand correctly only Criminal Liability would apply.

Brian

 

[Happy Trails]

Are you talking about me, or is my ego out of control again?

Yes, I was talking about you. Were your ears or should I say speakers ringing.

Thanks JETX.

 

[Veronica1228]

Yes, I was talking about you. Were your ears or should I say speakers ringing.

Thanks JETX.

No, I just happened to stumble on this thread.

I had some theories about banking fees, but I will acquiesce to Jetx's greater age and wisdom.

 

[Happy Trails]

Yes there are 2 Issues but that was never a civil action, So if I understand correctly only Criminal Liability would apply.

Brian

Well, as I stated before I don't know what the bank charged them and how much interest they tacked on.

They could still pursue a civil action against you, and as stated in JETX's post the penalties would be much worse.

 

[superdairyboy]

The interest charged was 9.30
There Bank charges them $10 for an NSF

Brian