Rights to a competent teacher???

[tsergent]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
OK, I'm in my last semester of nursing school. The instructor this semester had an aneurysm in Nov of last year and has came back to teaching this semester. Actually I think she came back last semester after only being out one semester. Anyway, the problem is I question her ability to teach. From the very first class we could tell she had a problem remembering practically everything. She forgot discussions we'd had with her extensively from the previous day, she forgot tests at her other campus (she teaches two class at separate campuses), she lost tests which would delay us retaking them (a math test you have to score 80% on or you can't pass meds, they give you a few chances to pass it), and she continuously forgets that we went over certain topics from the previous week or previous day. I can see forgetting here and there but she forgets everything to the point where she will become very defensive toward us as students. This isn't the only problem with this teacher. From the first test until the third she gave last week, everyone in the class except three people has failed two of the tests. At least 75% failed the math test. The problem is that she does not want to give us anything to study by. She gives us hints as to what has been on previous tests but we found after test #1 that if you go by that, you will fail. She tells us things will be on a test that are not and the things she says will not be on the test are on it. We can't even go by the syllabus even though she says anything on there is "fair game". She will test us on material that is not even listed on the syllabus. So all in all, we have NOTHING to go by...nothing set in stone that will tell us what will be on her tests. Then the biggest upset happened last week after the third failed test. A student was looking through another students old edition and was questioning the teacher as to what pages she got the questions on the test from. She gave this info to the student and she figured it out...this teacher has been testing us on chapters out of the old edition which don't even match up to the new edition. Example...we were to have a quiz on cardiac and she tests us on hypertension (with bits of cardiac here and there). She told us the night before there was only cardiac assessment on the test and gave us the chapters to study. Everyone failed it because hypertension was taught the day before and not suppose to be on the test. She yells at this student when she suggest that maybe she is using the old edition...she even said to her, "you will not tell me what to put on my tests!!" Not only that, she says there will be no retakes of this test...even though its her fault for testing us over the wrong material. Most of the class has either spoken to her, spoken to the director of the program, or the dean herself and so far nothing has come of it. I have written a letter myself and the only response we have gotten is that they are meeting with this teacher. I have a feeling that nothing is going to come of this or if it does, not to the extent that I would like. I am furthering my education beyond this school and do not want this to affect my gpa. Furthermore, I do not want to fail this semester (as students in the previous semester did all because of this teacher as well). If the dean does not do anything to correct this test we took because of this incompetent instructor, what can we as a class do about it? Is there anything legal we can do? I mean we paid for an education, surely there are standards these teachers have to go by? It's obvious this teacher is incompetent and many students have tried to transfer, yet that also is not an option. I need some legal advice as to what our options are or if there's anything we can do???

 

[cyjeff]

I am encouraged by a nursing student that wants to discriminate on the basis of a physical disability.

I really am.

Why not get the other students together and, instead of complaining, start coming up with ways to HELP your teacher recover?

Send her a nightly email with notes about what was covered and the assignments given. Establish a liaison student on a weekly basis to address these issues.

Take this as an opportunity to show that you are truly meant for your profession... rather than an opportunity to make someone that just suffered a life altering event feel like a piece of crap?

other than that, complain to the dean... as a group.

 

[ecmst12]

I would suggest dropping the class while you can still get some of your money back and try again next time.

 

[Humusluvr]

Does your school have an official grievance procedure? Can you file a complaint?

Ask for a meeting with the dean as a group.

I went through a similar situation where my professor had a series of strokes over the semester. She couldn't remember, and really shouldn't have been in the classroom. She was finally removed when I took a picture of her purse, which she left open on the desk, was full of medications and multiple vials of Vicodin. I showed it to our dean.

Compile evidence. If it's going to come down to he said/she said, you should have as much evidence as possible that she is incompetent. Then, follow the school's procedures. If the procedures are not listed, call the dean and ask for a meeting.

 

[tsergent]

I am encouraged by a nursing student that wants to discriminate on the basis of a physical disability.

I really am.

Why not get the other students together and, instead of complaining, start coming up with ways to HELP your teacher recover?

Send her a nightly email with notes about what was covered and the assignments given. Establish a liaison student on a weekly basis to address these issues.

Take this as an opportunity to show that you are truly meant for your profession... rather than an opportunity to make someone that just suffered a life altering event feel like a piece of crap?

other than that, complain to the dean... as a group.

Ok, first you need to reword your first sentence because it doesnt make sense.
Second, obviously you are not in nursing school because if you were, you would see the importance of time management. I don't have time with all the assignments, clinicals, and weekly, yes, weekly tests to help a teacher...ummm teach!! She is incompetent, and when anyone asks for clarity, or tries to figure out why everyone keeps failing, she is defensive and jumps down everyone's throat.
Third, did I mention I'm in nursing school...I'm not a teacher and I'm not getting paid to teach this lady's class.
Forth, people like you annoy me...you see the fault in the one looking for an answer however if the tables were turned, you would probably be the first to complain about not getting an adequate education. I guarantee it!!
And lastly, if your intent is not to help others on here, spare your comments please!!!

 

[Proserpina]

Ok, first you need to reword your first sentence because it doesnt make sense.
Second, obviously you are not in nursing school because if you were, you would see the importance of time management. I don't have time with all the assignments, clinicals, and weekly, yes, weekly tests to help a teacher...ummm teach!! She is incompetent, and when anyone asks for clarity, or tries to figure out why everyone keeps failing, she is defensive and jumps down everyone's throat.
Third, did I mention I'm in nursing school...I'm not a teacher and I'm not getting paid to teach this lady's class.
Forth, people like you annoy me...you see the fault in the one looking for an answer however if the tables were turned, you would probably be the first to complain about not getting an adequate education. I guarantee it!!
And lastly, if your intent is not to help others on here, spare your comments please!!!

Would you react this way to a patient who made similar statements?

Interesting.

 

[cyjeff]

Ok, first you need to reword your first sentence because it doesnt make sense.

What word did you not understand?

Second, obviously you are not in nursing school because if you were, you would see the importance of time management.

I assure you that time management is a valuable skill in many professions outside of nursing.

I don't have time with all the assignments, clinicals, and weekly, yes, weekly tests to help a teacher...ummm teach!! She is incompetent, and when anyone asks for clarity, or tries to figure out why everyone keeps failing, she is defensive and jumps down everyone's throat.

I hope you don't get one of those mean old patients that doesn't understand that you have more important stuff to do than ...ummm, NURSE.

Third, did I mention I'm in nursing school...I'm not a teacher and I'm not getting paid to teach this lady's class.

Not even in the workforce yet and already developing "it isn't my job" attitude.

I was giving you the opportunity to use compassion as well as intelligence. Oh well, let's hope you still have intelligence.

I also gave you the option of going to the dean as a group and complaining.... or is that too much work, too.

You see, what you don't seem to realize is that this situation is going to cost you time one way or another. You will either invest in this teacher or you will go to the dean complaining about incompetence... and then get the opportunity to retake the class.

Why yes, retake the class. What did you think the outcome would be when you have a teacher removed because he/she cannot teach.

My solution would enable you to keep the credit for the class you were in while still getting the education you rightfully deserve.

Go with your way... because the only option that WON'T happen is that the students will be given credit in the course without proving that knowledge has been gained.

Forth, people like you annoy me...you see the fault in the one looking for an answer however if the tables were turned, you would probably be the first to complain about not getting an adequate education. I guarantee it!!

In which class do they now teach the ability to read minds?

For what it is worth, nurses like YOU ignore me... people that look at sick folks not as a reason for compassion but, instead, as a source of irritation because they are between you and what you want.

Someday, you will have an injury and/or illness that begins to effect your ability to do your job. I hope you find the same compassion you give.

I am certain you have heard of karma? In the medical profession, karma comes back HARSHLY.

And lastly, if your intent is not to help others on here, spare your comments please!!!

And if your intent is not to help others, choose another profession.... something with cadavers or fish, perhaps.

 

[tsergent]

Thanks everyone (or to the ones that did try to post some useful information)...I appreciate your suggestions. There have been some developments since my last post. My teacher was spoken to by the dean and program director last week. Evidently she had some negative feedback about us as a class. Why I have no clue, I'm assuming it was the incident between her and the student who told her she was using the wrong edition book and testing us over the wrong chapters. After that happened and it didn't appear she was going to teach (only argue about the test) most people left. She though that was rude but if you are going to fail your students every test and not teach them what they need to know, what do you expect? She would spend so much class time arguing or trying to make a point instead of teach.

Anyway, she is only teaching her other class now and we have subs step in...teachers who are teaching the day nursing classes. It was refreshing to actually get a real lecture but the problem that still continues is the previous tests we took. The director emailed us today letting us know she has looked over the tests and she took away a point here or there but it sounded as if everything has been taken care of. The problem, test #4 was given yesterday and most failed it. The reason...our teacher had not lectured us on any of the material and with no time left, no one else did either. We basically had to read the chapters and be tested over it. For those who are in nursing school, you know how difficult that is because of the amount of material, not to mention understanding it. For those who don't know or have any idea how hard nursing school is...there were 182 pages, 8 chapters, and about 30 diseases we had to learn many of which had some of the same symptoms. We were not given our usual amount of time to take the test, only a minute per question, and many topics on it should have been covered in a previous semester, not this one. However, this teacher ends up giving her other class (the only one she now teaches) an open book test. How fair is that? I'm sure she did it out of spite to show us who got the better end of the deal and because she simply did not have time to lecture all that material by the time of the test. I am emailing the director simply because I will not stand for the unjust treatment. The test in which our teacher used the wrong book and tested us on material she emailed us and said would not be on the test should be thrown out. We should have retakes for that in the very least. In my opinion they just don't want to take the time to create a test. However, I refuse to stand by and fail out of no fault of my own. I have thought about dropping like someone suggested but I have spent all this time getting to this last semester. I have made good grades and all my plans are based on graduating this december. I don't think I should have to fail or withdrawal because of or lack of an education. They should be forced to provide us with what we paid for!!! That is why I'm on here asking anyone if there is anything I can do besides the obvious which is withdrawal, fail, or discuss this with the dean which has already been done. A bunch of us did finally get in to see the dean so she is well aware of what is going on.

 

[Humusluvr]

Thanks everyone (or to the ones that did try to post some useful information)...I appreciate your suggestions. There have been some developments since my last post. My teacher was spoken to by the dean and program director last week. Evidently she had some negative feedback about us as a class. Why I have no clue, I'm assuming it was the incident between her and the student who told her she was using the wrong edition book and testing us over the wrong chapters. After that happened and it didn't appear she was going to teach (only argue about the test) most people left. She though that was rude but if you are going to fail your students every test and not teach them what they need to know, what do you expect? She would spend so much class time arguing or trying to make a point instead of teach.

Anyway, she is only teaching her other class now and we have subs step in...teachers who are teaching the day nursing classes. It was refreshing to actually get a real lecture but the problem that still continues is the previous tests we took. The director emailed us today letting us know she has looked over the tests and she took away a point here or there but it sounded as if everything has been taken care of. The problem, test #4 was given yesterday and most failed it. The reason...our teacher had not lectured us on any of the material and with no time left, no one else did either. We basically had to read the chapters and be tested over it. For those who are in nursing school, you know how difficult that is because of the amount of material, not to mention understanding it. For those who don't know or have any idea how hard nursing school is...there were 182 pages, 8 chapters, and about 30 diseases we had to learn many of which had some of the same symptoms. We were not given our usual amount of time to take the test, only a minute per question, and many topics on it should have been covered in a previous semester, not this one. However, this teacher ends up giving her other class (the only one she now teaches) an open book test. How fair is that? I'm sure she did it out of spite to show us who got the better end of the deal and because she simply did not have time to lecture all that material by the time of the test. I am emailing the director simply because I will not stand for the unjust treatment. The test in which our teacher used the wrong book and tested us on material she emailed us and said would not be on the test should be thrown out. We should have retakes for that in the very least. In my opinion they just don't want to take the time to create a test. However, I refuse to stand by and fail out of no fault of my own. I have thought about dropping like someone suggested but I have spent all this time getting to this last semester. I have made good grades and all my plans are based on graduating this december. I don't think I should have to fail or withdrawal because of or lack of an education. They should be forced to provide us with what we paid for!!! That is why I'm on here asking anyone if there is anything I can do besides the obvious which is withdrawal, fail, or discuss this with the dean which has already been done. A bunch of us did finally get in to see the dean so she is well aware of what is going on.

Since the dean is aware of the problem, ask them to reassess your tests. Or ask them to administer new tests. The only thing you can do is ask. Ask that you be given the opportunity to demonstrate you have the knowledge that class is asking for.

Open book tests do not check students for mastery, so ultimately they may be easy, but they are worthless to your education - which again is a nail in this teacher's coffin.

 

[commentator]

And it is common knowledge among educators that a clinical person (nursing class instructors are very notorious for this) can have the clinical knowledge, or have had it before their health problems, and still not be a good teacher, not able to effectively tranfer and convey the knowledge to students in a manner which is helpful to them.

Any class where the largest majority of the students are not passing the tests is obviously a situation where the material is not being taught effectively. It should not be the goal of the teacher to fail all the students in a class, because that means they have not taught the material, not that the students are a bunch of slackers.

I would suggest you keep careful records of what is going on and what you're being asked to do, and that you and your fellow students continue to go to the administrators on a regular basis. Do the best you can if you cannot at this time withdraw from the class without repercussions and you have to take it from this particular instructor to obtain your degree. But do not panic at this point. The situation you describe is fairly common. Usually the perpetrator is an inexperienced teacher, but sometimes an older teacher who has slipped "beyond the pale" and is still teaching is definitely the problem.


But the departmental authorities know that if the situation becomes public knowledge, that word gets out they have allowed an incompetent and unfair teacher to fail most of the students in a class due to her own incompetence, then they will be held responsible by the university. You might call and discuss the situation with the board of regents/department of education in your state, but that would be only if your dean of nursing is not working with you and is refusing to listen to your issues as a group. How can you be asked to show that you have the knowledge required to pass the class if it is not in any cognizant manner being taught to you in this class which you have paid to take?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I suggest you do what other college students do, when they have a bad instructor. Drop the class and retake it next semester.

 

[tsergent]

What word did you not understand?
It's not the word I don't understand, it's where you are coming from. Discrimination is used too often these days. This teacher can't teach and she just had an aneurysm...lets just let her come back regardless of it she can teach at all. What is this doing? This is cheating the student to keep from "discriminating" against the teacher. So in your eyes, it doesn't matter if someone can do the job at all, they should be given their job back. What a screwed up world that would be...or is becoming with that mindset



I assure you that time management is a valuable skill in many professions outside of nursing.
Yes it is and quite frankly, I'm amazed that I've given you this much of my time!! But what some don't understand is that unlike many professions you go to school for, nursing is not one of those you can drink and party and still get good grades. It involves a lot of work so when it comes to your education, you expect good teachers...and rightly so!! If you don't expect that, then you are cheating yourself and deserve a lousy education.



I hope you don't get one of those mean old patients that doesn't understand that you have more important stuff to do than ...ummm, NURSE.
Ummm....I think what we have here is one of those old patients that thinks everyone owes him/her something!!! That's what it sounds like to me.



Not even in the workforce yet and already developing "it isn't my job" attitude.
Pretty much when I'm PAYING for an education that I"m not GETTING. What are you, one of those people who give to all and expect nothing in return? What a saint if so.

I was giving you the opportunity to use compassion as well as intelligence. Oh well, let's hope you still have intelligence.
I have intelligence...I've made it to the end of nursing. The problem is an incompetent teacher that wants to fail students. Besides...I will use compassion on patients, not teachers. Did you read the part about me being in school?

I also gave you the option of going to the dean as a group and complaining.... or is that too much work, too.
Now wouldn't you think we would have done that as a first option? Why would I skip that in lieu of a lawsuit?

You see, what you don't seem to realize is that this situation is going to cost you time one way or another. You will either invest in this teacher or you will go to the dean complaining about incompetence... and then get the opportunity to retake the class.
Or complain, get rid of the teacher and prevent her from failing other students like she has before. According to you this teacher is just in giving no education yet failing students. Invest in a teacher huh? So I should put all my time in doing that...I mean who needs the time to study right? and then fail in the end. Great plan.

Why yes, retake the class. What did you think the outcome would be when you have a teacher removed because he/she cannot teach.
Have you heard of others more competent replacing her like has happened because we as students complained? I hate those with no backbone who never fight for whats right and just. That's what's wrong with the world today. We're supposed to just let it slide...get over it...it will fix itself...I don't have the time to fight for what's rightfully mine.

My solution would enable you to keep the credit for the class you were in while still getting the education you rightfully deserve.
Not really because the real problem is she is not competent and a few notes to her each night reminding her to teach the next day won't change the fact that she can't teach.

Go with your way... because the only option that WON'T happen is that the students will be given credit in the course without proving that knowledge has been gained.
Now who reads minds??? You read it wrong however...class is doing better with the subs that have been filling in.



In which class do they now teach the ability to read minds?

For what it is worth, nurses like YOU ignore me... people that look at sick folks not as a reason for compassion but, instead, as a source of irritation because they are between you and what you want.
You have no idea what kind of nurse I am or will ever be. You are not using your intelligence to offer solutions on here, you quite possibly have been using your emotion because of some mistreatment you've gotten from a nurse? Its simply not fair of you to judge me for what you may or may not have received. Besides...I'm in clinicals now and for what its worth to YOU...I'm fighting to be a nurse and I have quite a lot of compassion for others, otherwise I would have never chosen this profession. Nursing it not one of those jobs (like most) where the higher up you go, the less work you do. However a lot of patients seem to think they are the only ones and that no one matters but them. They sometimes fail to understand that someone other than themselves might have problems bigger than theirs. A lot of patients think a hospital is more like a hotel. If a nurse is not paying all their attention to them, then they must be off screwing around. Maybe they are off caring for a dying patient. Also...before you judge, I had quite a bit of compassion for this teacher before she became mean and nasty when we tried to explain to her what she was doing wrong. Thing is, we only have 10 weeks and a test every week this last semester and to let it go for too long without fixing the problem of not getting an education and tests that have nothing to do with what we were told to study and you will not be able to make up the failed tests.

Someday, you will have an injury and/or illness that begins to effect your ability to do your job. I hope you find the same compassion you give.
Again, don't judge me before walking in my shoes. You have no idea what I have had to overcome to get to where I am today. Just because you may have an illness (and it just sounds this way to me, I may be wrong) doesn't give you the right to judge me or my actions.

I am certain you have heard of karma? In the medical profession, karma comes back HARSHLY.
Is that right? So you're in the medical profession? if not, how would you know? in the medical profession at least some of us chose it to help others unlike many professions (anything business related) where the person chose it to help themselves. This is where the bad karma should lie. I have done nothing wrong so I'm not worried about it. If you go to the store and buy a product, do you not take it back if it doesn't work? If you keep it and say well I'll just try to fix it then you have every reason to give me advice but if you take it back its the same as me wanting an education because I paid for it. A teacher simply should not teach if she is not able. Besides, I think this teacher could not teach before her medical problem.



And if your intent is not to help others, choose another profession.... something with cadavers or fish, perhaps.

Is that right? I'd love to know what your profession is because I'm sure I could pass a lot of judgement onto you....you know since I know everything about you and what you deserve.

 

[tsergent]

Would you react this way to a patient who made similar statements?

Interesting.

As interesting as it may be to you....my education and my profession are two different things with two very different set of rules. In case I need to break the two down for you...in school you pay to be there so you expect to get what you pay for. Now there are students that don't care how they are treated and will take what is dished out to them, those students deserve what they get. I'm not one of those students. I paid to be in school, I expect a well rounded education and I deserve to get what I paid for. I don't expect a teacher that can't teach, that continuously snaps at other students when they are simply asking her questions, and repetitively fail students when she herself is not teaching us nor telling us what tests will cover...or better yet saying it will not cover material that in fact it does end up covering. In the world of nursing obviously I'm there to do a job.

 

[tsergent]

I suggest you do what other college students do, when they have a bad instructor. Drop the class and retake it next semester.

Nope, not an option. This is my last 10 weeks and besides, the same rules don't apply in nursing school. I may get in next semester and I may not. It would all depend on there being openings. Usually there are none because out of about 2,000 students applying each semester only 400 get in. There are not enough teachers for all the students...which could very well contribute to the problem I'm having as well. I've worked very hard to get to my last semester and have had to be without a job in the meantime...so everything is based around me graduating this semester. I need a job, unemployment is running out, etc, etc. Besides, I don't think I should have to change all my plans just because of a teacher that can't teach.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

So you think the rules should apply differently to you. If you are that desperate, accept what you get. Life is not fair.