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rip off by plumber

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fleeced

Guest
California: I need advice regarding a plumber. I called in several plumbers for an estimate on pulling a gas line for my cooking range. One contractor gave me a good price. I asked him to write a contract & he said he could not if he were to give me that price. I told him that I was a 1st time homeowner & did not know what the job would entail.I asked him about how to get the permit & I went to the city to pull a permit. He appointed a day to start the job & cut out my kitchen drywall. After that he told me he would be back in an hour after understanding the details from the inspector who wrote the permit. That one hour has become more than one & a half months. He didn't turn up and cooked up a story. He said the city is making him wait. After the city supposedly gives him a green signal he increased the cost of the job by another $500.00.(Please note that there is no contract, or any other paperwork done, this is all verbal). He never returned any of my calls & now he wants us to sign a contract with no details on the job, has no lien release clause, etc. Realizing too late that he's been trying to play around with the job, when I told him to call off the job -he said he will send me a bill for the time he has spent at the city & the cutting of the drywall.He has made my kitchen a mess & instead of patching back the drywall -he wants to send me a bill for cutting the drywall and making trips to the city. Can he claim anything from me? What legal protection do I have? Please advice.
 


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Tracey

Guest
You hired him to do gas work, not to drive to the city & sit around with his thumb up his butt. If he's not able to figure out what needs to be done from the building code & permit, that's his problem. He solves it on his dime. As for the drywall, how long did it take him to cut the drywall? 15 minutes? (Even I can cut drywall in that time!)

When he sends you the bill, inform him that you'll only pay for the 15 minutes of work he did at his hourly rate ($60/hr or so). Then charge him for the time you spent cleaning up after his mess & send him a check for the difference with "full accord & satisfaction of disputed bill" written on it. If he cashes the check & tries to collect any more $$, you can raise accord & satisfaction as a defense.

If he doesn't cash the check, the worst he can do is put a lien on your house. The lien will expire of its own accord in 8 months or so unless he sues you in small claims court. When he does, go in and defend the suit. Judges are homeowners too. They don't like contractors! You could also sue him for overcharging, shoddy work, and unconscionable business practices. You'd get to talk first that way. (An advantage.)

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This is not legal advice and you are not my client. Double check everything with your own attorney and your state's laws.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tracey:
You hired him to do gas work, not to drive to the city & sit around with his thumb up his butt. If he's not able to figure out what needs to be done from the building code & permit, that's his problem. He solves it on his dime. As for the drywall, how long did it take him to cut the drywall? 15 minutes? (Even I can cut drywall in that time!)

When he sends you the bill, inform him that you'll only pay for the 15 minutes of work he did at his hourly rate ($60/hr or so). Then charge him for the time you spent cleaning up after his mess & send him a check for the difference with "full accord & satisfaction of disputed bill" written on it. If he cashes the check & tries to collect any more $$, you can raise accord & satisfaction as a defense.

If he doesn't cash the check, the worst he can do is put a lien on your house. The lien will expire of its own accord in 8 months or so unless he sues you in small claims court. When he does, go in and defend the suit. Judges are homeowners too. They don't like contractors! You could also sue him for overcharging, shoddy work, and unconscionable business practices. You'd get to talk first that way. (An advantage.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Tracey. Another piece of advice is to check to see if he is a licensed plumbing contractor. If he is, the State requires a written contract and certain requirments in the contract ie. cost of the entire job, duration of the job etc. If he is not licensed, you still benefit as you can complain that he was doing work as an unlicensed contractor.
 
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fleeced

Guest
Thanks Tracey and HomeGuru for taking the time to advise me. He is a state licensed contractor. I am just confused as to how he can put a lien on my house without any signed paperwork from me whatsoever (no contract was signed). He has not put in materials worth even a penny in my house. Tracey is right- he cut out the drywall in just about 15 mins. and is absconding ever since.

Is it advisable to just keep silent when he sends me a bill? Can he take any action based on that? Is there any way I can claim reimbursement from him to get my drywall repaired (cost of around $300)? Please note we don't have a contract. I highly appreciate your advice in this matter. Thanks.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleeced:
Thanks Tracey and HomeGuru for taking the time to advise me. He is a state licensed contractor. I am just confused as to how he can put a lien on my house without any signed paperwork from me whatsoever (no contract was signed). He has not put in materials worth even a penny in my house. Tracey is right- he cut out the drywall in just about 15 mins. and is absconding ever since.

Is it advisable to just keep silent when he sends me a bill? Can he take any action based on that? Is there any way I can claim reimbursement from him to get my drywall repaired (cost of around $300)? Please note we don't have a contract. I highly appreciate your advice in this matter. Thanks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since he is licensed you have recourse using the help from the State. Call the State and find out what the regulatory requirements are in your case. You will be surprised at the things that this guy did not follow. He can file a lien based on no written contract and no materials used. He can file a lien for labor.

It is not adviseable to keep silent. You need to take a proactive approach by disputing the bill in writing and stating that you will hire another contractor to complete the job properly. All costs to finish the job will be charged to him. Copy the Contractor's License Board.
 
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Tracey

Guest
Absolutely be proactive. I don't know if you can get the drywall repair costs. Did his quote include drywall repair or was that your responsibility? If nothing was said at all, does "industry practice" provide that repair is included in such a bid? If not, you can't get the $300 because it was $$ you'd have to have spent anyway. However, if you end up in small claims court, go ahead and sue/counterclaim for it.

Do the accord & satisfaction thing. Then, if puts a mechanic's lien on your house, you can sue him for filing a false lien & get beaucoup damages & penalties! The A&S is also a defense you can raise in small claims court.

When you talk to the stat regulatory board, ask if there is a way you can file a claim against his bond. (That's possible in Washington.) You may need to get a judgment from small claims court first. If so, sue him. Plaintiff has the advantage in SC court 'cause she talks first. Claim for the $300 you spent to repair the drywall, and for the amount he's overcharged you (reduction in contract price).

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This is not legal advice and you are not my client. Double check everything with your own attorney and your state's laws.

[This message has been edited by Tracey (edited June 29, 2000).]
 
F

fleeced

Guest
Thanks for responding! His estimate is just scribble on his own company estimate form. It does not elaborate any details of work to be performed It only reads "Est to install gas range" but he verbally stated that it included patching and painting the drywall. The contract that he sent to us now and we didn't sign stated "that he would patch the dry wall to a rough finish". This was sent via fax by him. Could you please explain what beaucoup damages and penalties mean?

How does filing a mecahnic's lien work? Does he have to send us any notice before filing a lien. Within what timeframe can he act?

Thanks again.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleeced:
Thanks for responding! His estimate is just scribble on his own company estimate form. It does not elaborate any details of work to be performed It only reads "Est to install gas range" but he verbally stated that it included patching and painting the drywall. The contract that he sent to us now and we didn't sign stated "that he would patch the dry wall to a rough finish". This was sent via fax by him. Could you please explain what beaucoup damages and penalties mean?

How does filing a mecahnic's lien work? Does he have to send us any notice before filing a lien. Within what timeframe can he act?

Thanks again.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am just responding to the word. Beaucoup is not a legal term for it is a French word used to mean a lot, major, very much etc. Ex. Merci beaucoup means thank you very much in French. I enjoy reading some of the foreign language, slang and other words that Tracey uses in replying. Makes for interesting and colorful reading. Better to read French than Pig Latin or Persian English.
 
T

Tracey

Guest
All states allow people who do remodel/repair work on houses to file a mechanic's lien against the property to protect their right to get paid. However, as a lien clouds title & gives the lienholder the right to foreclose on the house, most states make a contractor pay LOTS of $$ when s/he files a lien *knowing* it is invalid or false.

The lien procedures are in your state statutes. You can read them there. Don't worry about it until he files one. Then, just walk into court and collect your dinars.

:) Tossed in a little Greek just for you HomeGuru!



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This is not legal advice and you are not my client. Double check everything with your own attorney and your state's laws.
 
F

fleeced

Guest
Thanks a lot Tracey - you've been a great help! Just one more thing - Can we have another plumber/contractor come in to finish the job? Could it complicate matters? Should I wait a certain period of time before I go ahead with it? I am in a dilemma and since I am in this type of a situation for the very first time (notwithstanding the lesson learned)I don't want to make any more mistakes. Thanks again!
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tracey:
All states allow people who do remodel/repair work on houses to file a mechanic's lien against the property to protect their right to get paid. However, as a lien clouds title & gives the lienholder the right to foreclose on the house, most states make a contractor pay LOTS of $$ when s/he files a lien *knowing* it is invalid or false.

The lien procedures are in your state statutes. You can read them there. Don't worry about it until he files one. Then, just walk into court and collect your dinars.

:) Tossed in a little Greek just for you HomeGuru!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gracias Tracey, I yen for more.
Muchos garcias and bonus nachos.
 
T

Tracey

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleeced:
Thanks a lot Tracey - you've been a great help! Just one more thing - Can we have another plumber/contractor come in to finish the job? Could it complicate matters? Should I wait a certain period of time before I go ahead with it? I am in a dilemma and since I am in this type of a situation for the very first time (notwithstanding the lesson learned)I don't want to make any more mistakes. Thanks again!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hire another plumber after you've taken lots of pictures. If P1 hasn't completed the job in 2 weeks, he ain't gonna. The replacement plumber will be your best witness regarding the true value of what P1 did. Get something in writing from P2 & be prepared to call him/her as a witness.

Ciao


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This is not legal advice and you are not my client. Double check everything with your own attorney and your state's laws.
 

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