Sager Laptop Repair Frustration

[ffys]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

In July 2011, I bought a $2000+ laptop from Sager through XoticPC. This was mostly a work laptop, but sometimes, it was also used for gaming. It had a 3 year extended parts/labor warranty. Two months later, I started getting multiple blue screens of deaths (BSODs) and also the laptop would just power off.

I contacted XoticPC in early October about the issues. We went back and forth for a few weeks via email with me relaying information about when the problems were occurring, checking system logs, and checking hardware such as RAM and hard drive. It seemed like the issue might have been overheating since it happened more often while running graphics intensive games.

In November, XoticPC gave me an RMA and shipping label so that I could ship the laptop to Sager for repairs. Since I had some work deadlines, and I was not gaming on it (which seemed to cause the problems almost all the time), I asked if I could delay the repair process till it was more convenient for me to be without a laptop. Also, I didn't have a working backup computer that could be used while the laptop was away. I had to spend another $300+ and some time installing a new motherboard, Windows 7, and Office 2010 for a broken desktop to be used as my backup computer.

The laptop was sent for repairs on 12/26/2011. We didn't get an update on the repair process till 1/12/2012. They claimed all of the hardware tested ok but the OS needed to be reinstalled. I found this odd considering the issues before (re: overheating), but I am not an expert. On 1/24/2012, we received the laptop, almost a month after sending it. It took them almost a month to tell me to reinstall Windows 7. Really?

A few days after we received the laptop, I did a complete reinstall of Windows 7. I used the Windows 7 reinstall instructions listed on XoticPC's support forums. All drivers were up to date as well. The system seemed to be stable for a few days but then the same problems occurred again. This time, the computer would just shut off even in the middle of something simple like Word, Excel, or web browsing. It was definitely not an overheating issue.

On 2/9/2011, I contacted Sager to get some support. They just responded with an RMA and a shipping label and not much of a dialogue about what I had seen. I didn't want to just blindly send the laptop back without question and have them keep it for another month just to fail to diagnose the problem again and thus fail to fix it.

I then decided to contact the same XoticPC person I had talked to for weeks earlier. The first call on 2/9/2012 was not returned. On 2/14/2012, I called again. The person on the phone told me the person I was trying to reach "had received my email" (even though I had never sent one) and that they were at lunch and would get back to me. They never got back to me. I sent an email this time on 2/17/2012. They finally responded on 2/21/2012 promising me they would make sure my repair was expedited and that the same issues would not occur. They asked me to send them some new diagnostic information. I did so on 2/24/2012. They told me on 2/27/2012 that they would take my information and get back to me later that day. I never heard from them until I got fed up and emailed them on 3/7/2012. They apologized for not having gotten back to me and assured me they would hear back from a Sager tech within 24 hours.

At this point, I felt like I had just wasted more than 2.5 months since sending it in for repair. XoticPC had promised me a quick turnaround with the repair and it had been anything but quick. They told me they would contact me on 2/27 but they didn't until I finally asked them what was going on on 3/7. So, I demanded they just replace the laptop since their delay in repairs and their lack of information about the repair did not lead me to believe they were doing their absolute best to thoroughly diagnose and fix the problem. In response to this, I received an email from Sager on 3/8/2012 asking me to return the laptop using the same RMA and UPS label they gave us on 2/9! We just wasted an entire month and they never even responded to my demand for a replacement!

I've lost many months now without a reliable work laptop. Every time it crashes, I have to switch machines. When it crashes away from home, I have to literally go home to continue working. Sager and XoticPC's repair and service turnaround is abysmally slow. I have no faith in them permanently fixing this laptop. I have no faith in them doing it in a timely manner. If there are ever issues in the future, I would have to be resigned to not having a work laptop for at least a month. This is unacceptable. I want to just get a refund at this point. What are my options?

 

[ffys]

Relevant Warranty information:

1. Definition of Terms

As used in this warranty policy, "Product" means any hardware manufactured for or by Sager bearing the "Sager" trademark, trade name, or logo that is purchased directly from Sager or a Sager Authorized Reseller.

An "Original Purchaser" is any consumer that purchases and has possession of a Product directly from Sager or from a Sager Authorized Reseller.

An "Authorized Reseller" is any retail store that has an agreement to purchase Products direct from Sager on an ongoing basis for resale.

An "End User" is the ultimate consumer of the Product and constitutes anyone who owns and uses a Sager Product.

"Date of Original Retail Purchase" is the date the Original Purchaser bought the Product from Sager or a Sager Authorized Reseller.

2. Scope of Warranty

SAGER WARRANTS this Sager hardware Product against defects in merchandise for a period of THREE (3) YEARS and lifetime limited labor workmanship from the Date of Original Retail Purchase.

a. Products Covered
This warranty applies only to hardware Products manufactured by or for Sager that can be identified by the "Sager" trademark, trade name, or logo affixed to them. Sager provides no warranty whatsoever for any software provided with its Products; such software is warranted separately by their manufacturers. Sager does not warrant any products that are not Sager Products. This warranty does not apply if: (1) the product has been damaged by accident, abuse, misuse, or misapplication; (2) the Product has been modified without the written permission of Sager; or (3) if any Sager serial number has been removed or defaced.

b. Service Procedures
If you discover a defect, Sager will, at its option and to the extent permitted by law: (1) repair the Product (using new or refurbished replacement parts); (2) replace the Product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or serviceable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product; or (3) refund the purchase price of this Product at no charge to you—provided you return it during the limited warranty period and obtain a Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) number prior to shipping your defective Product. The RMA number must appear plainly on the outside of the shipping packaging. RMA numbers can be obtained by calling or writing Sager at the address and phone numbers printed on this certificate. For each Product returned for warranty service, please attach your name, address, telephone number, RMA number, and a copy of your bill of sale bearing the appropriate Sager serial numbers as proof of Date of Original Retail Purchase.

It is your responsibility to complete a backup of all existing data and programs on Sager Products prior to returning the Product to Sager for repair under this limited warranty. SAGER WILL HAVE NO LIABILITY FOR LOSS OR RECOVERY OF DATA OR PROGRAMS.

Sager will pay for UPS three-day shipping both ways for returned products. THIS APPLIES TO END USERS IN THE CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ONLY (EXCLUDING PUERTO RICO, ALASKA, HAWAII, AND U.S. POSSESSIONS AND TERRITORIES). OTHERWISE, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SHIPPING THE PRODUCT TO OUR REPAIR FACILITY AND WE WILL SHIP THE PRODUCT BACK TO YOU FREIGHT COLLECT. SAGER IS ONLY ABLE TO PROVIDE RETURN SHIPPING TO THE END USER FOR THOSE END USERS WITH AN FPO/APO ADDRESS.

SAGER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REQUIRE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SHIPPING COSTS IF IT IS APPARENT THE PROBLEM IS NOT COVERED BY THIS LIMITED PARTS AND LABOR WARRANTY.


c. Lifetime Free Technical Support
SAGER WILL PROVIDE telephone or email technical assistance to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER of a Sager Product for as long as the Original Purchaser continues to possess the Product. All "Third-Party" software and peripherals are not covered by this Lifetime Free Technical Support. They are supported by their original manufacturers.

3. Sager's Limited Warranty Obligations are Limited to the Terms Set Forth Below:

BATTERIES, AC ADAPTERS AND EXTERNAL ACCESSORIES (SUCH AS EXTERNAL DISK DRIVES, CAR ADAPTERS ETC.) SHALL BE CLASSIFIED AS CONSUMABLE PARTS. THE WARRANTY PERIOD FOR BATTERIES AND AC ADAPTERS IS LIMITED TO ONE (1) YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASE.

IN THE EVENT SAGER ELECTS TO REFUND THE VALUE OF THE PRODUCT OR REPLACE THE PRODUCT, THE TERM OF THIS WARRANTY SHALL EXPIRE AS OF THE TIME OF THAT REFUND OR REPLACEMENT.

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, THE WARRANTY AND REMEDIES SET FORTH ABOVE ARE EXCLUSIVE AND IN LIEU OF ALL OTHERS, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, STUATUTORY, EXPRESS, OR IMPLIED. AS PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, SAGER SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL STATUTORY OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND WARRANTIES AGAINST HIDDEN OR LATENT DEFECTS. IF SAGER CANNOT LAWFULLY DISCLAIM STATUTORY OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THEN TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, ALL SUCH WARRANTIES SHALL BE LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE DURATION OF THIS EXPRESS WARRANTY AND TO REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT SERVICE AS DETERMINED BY SAGER IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION.
No Sager dealer, agent or employee is authorized to make any modification, extension or addition to this warranty. If any term is held to be illegal or unenforceable, the legality or enforceability of the remaining terms shall not be affected or impaired.

EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN THIS WARRANTY AND TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, SAGER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RESULTING FROM ANY BREACH OF WARRANTY, OR UNDER ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO: LOSS OF USE; LOSS OF REVENUE; LOSS OF ACTUAL OR ANTICIPATED PROFITS (INCLUDING LOSS OF PROFITS ON CONTRACTS); LOSS OF ACTUAL MONEY; LOSS OF ANTICIPATED SAVINGS; LOSS OF BUSINESS; LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY; LOSS OF GOODWILL; LOSS OF REPUTATION; LOSS OF, DAMAGE TO OR CORRUPTION OF DATA; DOWNTIME; OR ANY INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS OR DAMAGE HOWSOEVER CAUSED INCLUDING THE REPLACEMENT OF EQUIPMENT AND PROPERTY, ANY COSTS OF RECOVERING, REPROGRAMMING, OR REPRODUCING ANY PROGRAM OR DATA STORED IN OR USED WITH SAGER PRODUCTS, AND ANY FAILURE TO MAINTAIN THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF DATA STORED ON SAGER PRODUCTS.

SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR EXCLUSIONS OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS THAT VARY FROM STATE TO STATE.

4. Validation

Please visit Sager's warranty page (custom gaming laptops - Welcome to Sager Notebooks) to find out the date this warranty expires. You will be prompted to enter the serial number located on the bottom of the Product.

IF YOU DISCOVER ANY DISCREPANCY REGARDING THIS WARRANTY AND YOU PURCHASED THE PRODUCT DIRECTLY FROM SAGER, YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY SAGER OF THE DISCREPANCY.

IF YOU DISCOVER ANY DISCREPANCY REGARDING THIS WARRANTY AND YOU PURCHASED THE PRODUCT FROM AN AUTHORIZED RESELLER, YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THAT AUTHORIZED RESELLER OF THE DISCREPANCY.

5. Availability and Transferability

THIS WARRANTY MUST BE PURCHASED BY THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER WITHIN NINTY (90) DAYS OF THE PURCHASE DATE OF THE PRODUCT AND MAY NOT BE PURCHASED THEREAFTER.

THIS WARRANTY COVERS THE PRODUCT AND TRANSFERS WITH THE PRODUCT.
A REGISTRATION FEE IS REQUIRED IF THE PRODUCT HAS CHANGED OWNERSHIP.

6. Cancellation

THIS LIMITED WARRANTY MAY ONLY BE CANCELLED BY THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF THE PURCHASE OF THIS WARRANTY PROVIDED THAT NO CLAIMS HAVE BEEN MADE UNDER THIS WARRANTY AND THE WARRANTY WAS PURCHASED DIRECTLY FROM SAGER. A FULL REFUND OF THIS WARRANTY'S PURCHASE PRICE WILL BE GIVEN TO THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER. AFTER THIRTY (30) DAYS FROM THE PURCHASE DATE OR IF A CLAIM HAS BEEN MADE UNDER THE WARRANTY, THE WARRANTY MAY NOT BE CANCELLED.

IF THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER PURCHASED THIS LIMITED WARRANTY FROM A SAGER AUTHORIZED RESELLER, SAGER WILL NOT REFUND THIS WARRANTY'S PURCHASE PRICE. ANY REFUND SHALL BE MADE BY THE AUTHORIZED RESELLER. THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER MUST CONTACT THE AUTHORIZED RESELLER WHERE HE/SHE PURCHASED THE PRODUCT ABOUT ITS CANCELLATION AND REFUND POLICIES.

7. Governing Law

This warranty policy shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California. Any litigation under this agreement shall be resolved in the trial courts of Los Angeles County, State of California, which shall have exclusive jurisdiction on this matter.

 

[Zigner]

We just wasted an entire month and they never even responded to my demand for a replacement!

No, YOU wasted an entire month. Had you send the computer back when you got the RMA in Feb, it wouldn't have been a month wasted.

I want to just get a refund at this point. What are my options?

That would depend on the terms of your warranty. However, I doubt that a refund is an option under the terms of the warranty.

ETA: After you posted the terms of your warranty I can see that a refund is an option only if they so desire. You can't force them to refund your money.

 

[ffys]

No, YOU wasted an entire month. Had you send the computer back when you got the RMA in Feb, it wouldn't have been a month wasted.

They said they fixed my laptop. It was still broken. So, I should have just sent it back without any explanation hoping they get it right? If it's still broken after that, what happens? Send it back again?

I'm just wondering at what point can I make them give me a refund for something that doesn't work?

 

[Zigner]

They said they fixed my laptop. It was still broken. So, I should have just sent it back without any explanation hoping they get it right? If it's still broken after that, what happens? Send it back again?

I'm just wondering at what point can I make them give me a refund for something that doesn't work?

That is not an option with the warranty you purchased.

 

[BOM]

Xotic PC

This company has exhibited several shady business practices. One of the most common issues is that they ignore customer emails until that consumer complains on a public internet forum like notebookreviews.com I have seen the owner Justin (who I assume you are talking about in your OP) actually quote private and confidential emails on public forums while trying to make a point. He appears to have no problem putting down the customer with snark remarks.

At the end of the day this is not about bad business practices but if laws were broken/breach of contract. In your situation I think this is the case. Currently an attorney is working on developing a Class Action lawsuit against Xotic PC so it might pay for you to keep all documentation and stay in touch with other customers (plenty of them online in the forums) who have raised concerns.

 

[BL]

This company has exhibited several shady business practices. One of the most common issues is that they ignore customer emails until that consumer complains on a public internet forum like notebookreviews.com I have seen the owner Justin (who I assume you are talking about in your OP) actually quote private and confidential emails on public forums while trying to make a point. He appears to have no problem putting down the customer with snark remarks.

At the end of the day this is not about bad business practices but if laws were broken/breach of contract. In your situation I think this is the case. Currently an attorney is working on developing a Class Action lawsuit against Xotic PC so it might pay for you to keep all documentation and stay in touch with other customers (plenty of them online in the forums) who have raised concerns.

And it's 4 months later .Wonder what the outcome was ?