School Bus Off The Road

[MTaco]

What is the name of your state? Texas

Hello,

There was a school bus discharging kids about 10 feet off the road in a kinder-care parking lot with the flashers on. My wife thought since they were off the road she could pass but was unfortunately pulled over and given a $685 ticket, ouch. She didn't attempt to argue with the officer. She has a clean record and wants to try for deferred adjudication probation but an ex-cop told us to plead not-guilty and present photo and statute references. Any advice for us?

 

[justalayman]

What does “ off the road” mean

Was that bus entirely in a school parking lot? Was it still within the row for the road? Was this simply a pull off lot that is simply little more than a wide area of the road?

 

[MTaco]

The bus was completely outside the white line by about 10 feet. The parking lot does not have a curb separating from the road. The road is a divided highway with grass in the median and she was on the same side of the highway as the bus.

 

[FlyingRon]

Nope. A line doesn't count. Here are the exceptions from the transportation code:

(b) An operator on a highway having separate roadways is not required to stop:
(1) for a school bus that is on a different roadway;  or
(2) if on a controlled-access highway, for a school bus that is stopped:
(A) in a loading zone that is a part of or adjacent to the highway;  and
(B) where pedestrians are not permitted to cross the roadway.
​

The idea is that if there is a chance that a child will potentially be crossing that that point, they want you stopped.

Your wife could have killed a child, she needs to be more careful.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-545-066.html
(a) An operator on a highway, when approaching from either direction a school bus stopped on the highway to receive or discharge a student:
(1) shall stop before reaching the school bus when the bus is operating a visual signal as required by Section 547.701 ;  and
(2) may not proceed until:
(A) the school bus resumes motion;
(B) the operator is signaled by the bus driver to proceed;  or
(C) the visual signal is no longer actuated.
(b) An operator on a highway having separate roadways is not required to stop:
(1) for a school bus that is on a different roadway;  or
(2) if on a controlled-access highway, for a school bus that is stopped:
(A) in a loading zone that is a part of or adjacent to the highway;  and
(B) where pedestrians are not permitted to cross the roadway.


Quoting more of the law shows when a driver must stop. If the bus was actually in the parking lot it is not illegal to pass.

I drive by a Jr. High School every day. The buses pull into a parking lot to pick up and drop off kids. If traffic had to stop on the street while they were doing so traffic would still be backed up from yesterday morning.

@MTaco Could you make a link to a google map or street view of the location and post it?

 

[MTaco]

Is 10 ft off the highway considered the easement if it is private property? If so is the easement considered the highway?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

We have no idea because we don't know where it took place. Hence my request for a google map or street view link.

 

[justalayman]

The easement is determinable by researching the platting of the area. It is a factual determination.

 

[adjusterjack]

Is 10 ft off the highway considered the easement if it is private property? If so is the easement considered the highway?

I don't think easement is relevant to the issue. The motor vehicle statute is concerned with the layout of where the bus was, not the legal designation of that part of the property.

Give us a link to Google maps.

 

[justalayman]

I don't think easement is relevant to the issue. The motor vehicle statute is concerned with the layout of where the bus was, not the legal designation of that part of the property.

Give us a link to Google maps.

Actuallly knowing where the row is determines whether the bus is on the road or not. If one can prove the bus was not on the roadway (which can arguably include the row) one can argue there is no obligation to stop.

The law even specifies it as a requirement for the law to be applicable

a) An operator on a highway, when approaching from either direction a school bus stopped on the highway to receive or discharge a student:

Ergo, if the bus was not on the highway, one is not obligated to stop

But to take it one step further, there are even circumstances where the bus remains on the highway and a driver is not obligated to stop. Without knowing the roadway involved, it appears there is a possibility one of the exceptions may even apply

b) An operator on a highway having separate roadways is not required to stop:

(2) if on a controlled-access highway, for a school bus that is stopped:
(A) in a loading zone that is a part of or adjacent to the highway;  and
(B) where pedestrians are not permitted to cross the roadway.

So, with b2 the bus could be Actually on the roadway and the drivers would not be obligated to stop if the area was a loading zone.


I think Texas does concern itself with whether the bus was legally on the roadway or not.

 

[commentator]

Was the STOP sign arm on the left side of the bus out? We have busses that stop around here and pull pretty far off the road for large apartment complexes. But everyone has to stop, both ways, because the lights are flashing and that left arm sign is out. Although you could very easily pull around the bus, about one out of every three or four kids who gets off the bus will cross the road in front of the bus and suddenly appear in the middle of the lane you are sitting in. I have thought myself that in this case, it probably would've been safer if the driver had NOT pulled slightly to one side of the road, thus removing the temptation to go around.

 

[justalayman]

Was the STOP sign arm on the left side of the bus out? We have busses that stop around here and pull pretty far off the road for large apartment complexes. But everyone has to stop, both ways, because the lights are flashing and that left arm sign is out. Although you could very easily pull around the bus, about one out of every three or four kids who gets off the bus will cross the road in front of the bus and suddenly appear in the middle of the lane you are sitting in. I have thought myself that in this case, it probably would've been safer if the driver had NOT pulled slightly to one side of the road, thus removing the temptation to go around.

Do they remain on the roadway, if not the paved area, at least within the right of way?

And I don’t recall your state but I don’t believe it was Texas so I couldn’t check your state But what, precisely, does your states law say about stopping in your state


Here is my state’s law:

257.682 Stopping for school bus displaying flashing red lights; violation as civil infraction; meeting stopped school bus on divided highway; proof; rebuttable presumption; community service.
Sec. 682.

(1) The operator of a vehicle overtaking or meeting a school bus that has stopped and is displaying 2 alternately flashing red lights located at the same level shall bring the vehicle to a full stop not less than 20 feet from the school bus and shall not proceed until the school bus resumes motion or the visual signals are no longer actuated. The operator of a vehicle who fails to stop for a school bus as required by this subsection, who passes a school bus in violation of this subsection, or who fails to stop for a school bus in violation of an ordinance that is substantially similar to this subsection, is responsible for a civil infraction.

Notice there is no mentioned a bus being on the roadway or of a loading zone or anything in relation to being adjacent to the roadway. It simply says; a vehicle overtaking or meeting a bus...

The actions of the op would be considered illegal if in Michigan. Around here the bus would have to be hella far from the road to not be required to stop. The verbiage in the Texas statute is much more exacting and would allow for a defense in some situations where the bus was immediately adjacent to the roadway.

And I totally agree with your idea of the bus not pulling over. Around here they do that to allow drivers to pass after the kids are discharged if they are in a busy area. The smart drivers stay on the roadway while discharging the kids but pull over after the kids have cleared the area and allow other drivers to pass.

 

[MTaco]

Thank you all for chiming in and sorry for the delay, here is the location: https://goo.gl/maps/TnmxEYzR79Xw9DRd8

 

[MTaco]

Was the STOP sign arm on the left side of the bus out? We have busses that stop around here and pull pretty far off the road for large apartment complexes. But everyone has to stop, both ways, because the lights are flashing and that left arm sign is out. Although you could very easily pull around the bus, about one out of every three or four kids who gets off the bus will cross the road in front of the bus and suddenly appear in the middle of the lane you are sitting in. I have thought myself that in this case, it probably would've been safer if the driver had NOT pulled slightly to one side of the road, thus removing the temptation to go around.

The stop sign was out. I also think it is unsafe for the bus to pull off the road if people are expected to stop because someone could be distracted and not be looking for stopped cars in the middle of a 50 mph zone without a stop light or sign being very visible.

 

[MTaco]

The easement is determinable by researching the platting of the area. It is a factual determination.

Thank you!