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school dance

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dave33

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island. Good day to all.
I was informed by my son that last weekend at the school, if you wanted to participate in the school dance than you had to submit to a breathalyzer. He is 15 and a freshman at the local public school. There was no letter sent to parents or any kind of communication to inform parents or students of the policy of mandatory breath tests to gain admission to the school dance. I certainly understand the reason for the test and also share the administrations concerns. Be that as it may, I disagree for several reasons. Without going into those reasons, There are some here that I respect , those opinions I would appreciate hearing. Morally, ethically and legally?
 


justalayman

Senior Member
if they are not forced to submit to the test, which it appears they are not since they have the option of declining, then there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Just tell your son to decline the test and not go to the dance.


but rather than simply accepting that, I would suggest contacting as many parents as you can. If all the students refuse to attend the dance because they will be required to submit to attend, the school may rethink their action.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Personally speaking? It's not something I would have had an issue with. There should be no kid in HS who is legal to drink. Sadly, they had to do the same in the middle schools here. My only real "problem" might be the lack of notification. But.... not so much, really. Obviously, people know about the testing.
 

ajkroy

Member
Here's some perspective from MA: This will be my fourth year running the senior prom in the school where I work. I hire 8 police officers to manage the kids (over 500), and we tell them in advance that we have a breathalyzer there for random checks or if we are suspicious of someone drinking. Kids also have an escort to their cars if they have to go out to retrieve anything.

If you don't play by our rules, you either cannot attend or are asked to leave. I do it for the 500 or so other kids who want to have a drug- and alcohol-free prom.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Personally speaking? It's not something I would have had an issue with. There should be no kid in HS who is legal to drink. Sadly, they had to do the same in the middle schools here. My only real "problem" might be the lack of notification. But.... not so much, really. Obviously, people know about the testing.
I have a problem with the non-notification of parents. Even if its a last minute decision, with the new phone systems the schools are using to notify parents of last minute issues, there is no reason why parents cannot be notified.
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island. Good day to all.
I was informed by my son that last weekend at the school, if you wanted to participate in the school dance than you had to submit to a breathalyzer. He is 15 and a freshman at the local public school. There was no letter sent to parents or any kind of communication to inform parents or students of the policy of mandatory breath tests to gain admission to the school dance. I certainly understand the reason for the test and also share the administrations concerns. Be that as it may, I disagree for several reasons. Without going into those reasons, There are some here that I respect , those opinions I would appreciate hearing. Morally, ethically and legally?
Some schools are drug-testing children taking extra-curriculars. I'm willing to bet this situation was covered in the student handbook. :cool:
 

TigerD

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island. Good day to all.
I was informed by my son that last weekend at the school, if you wanted to participate in the school dance than you had to submit to a breathalyzer. He is 15 and a freshman at the local public school. There was no letter sent to parents or any kind of communication to inform parents or students of the policy of mandatory breath tests to gain admission to the school dance. I certainly understand the reason for the test and also share the administrations concerns. Be that as it may, I disagree for several reasons. Without going into those reasons, There are some here that I respect , those opinions I would appreciate hearing. Morally, ethically and legally?
Legally, I would never allow my children to participate in an activity that requires them to take any form of drug or alcohol test for the following reasons:
1. The schools aren't trained to do it right.
2. School administrations turn everything over to law enforcement - including any statements made by the kids.
3. Schools typically do not use qualified and accredited labs due to the cost involved.
4. Substandard labs increased the potential for error and false positives.
5. Substandard labs frequently cannot tell the difference between chemically similar substances where one is legal and one isn't - the kind of analysis that requires a gas chromatograph and mass spec machine run by a qualified technician/scientist.

Morally, I believe that participating in public school when a parent has the means or capability to send their kids to private school or home school is willful neglect. No child should be subjected to the American public school system.

TD
 

Ladyback1

Senior Member
Legally, I would never allow my children to participate in an activity that requires them to take any form of drug or alcohol test for the following reasons:
1. The schools aren't trained to do it right.
2. School administrations turn everything over to law enforcement - including any statements made by the kids.
3. Schools typically do not use qualified and accredited labs due to the cost involved.
4. Substandard labs increased the potential for error and false positives.
5. Substandard labs frequently cannot tell the difference between chemically similar substances where one is legal and one isn't - the kind of analysis that requires a gas chromatograph and mass spec machine run by a qualified technician/scientist.

Morally, I believe that participating in public school when a parent has the means or capability to send their kids to private school or home school is willful neglect. No child should be subjected to the American public school system.

TD
I was agreeing with you, right up to the bolded portion!:mad:

However, the school gets to make the rules about participating in extracurricular activities and/or events held on school property. Doesn't mean that I would not be at the next school board meeting asking for more information and explanation.

(Our public HS wanted to contract with a private firm to bring in drug sniffing dogs---and I did throw a hissy fit about that.)
 

ajkroy

Member
We have drug-sniffing dogs brought in by the local law enforcement. They regularly check all facets of the school. We do an unannounced hard lockdown "training exercise" to do it, and while the kids are out of the hallways, the dogs sniff every locker.

I don't know about TD's experiences, but my experiences with public schools AND drug testing have been vastly different. I guess I don't see why a trained person (our school employs over twenty nurses; 4 as school nurses and the rest as instructors) who can perform a rapid urine multi-panel drug test that is suitable for most places of employment (as pre-hire, random, and post-accident) wouldn't hold up for someone who wanted to play volleyball after school. ::shrug::

Not all private schools are Phillips Academy. Most are affiliated with religion and are not bound to facilitate special education the way public schools are. If your child is a prodigy, then a specialized private school might be the answer. But too many parents spend the extra money for private school for their child who has an IEP or other special needs, without realizing that those needs are often met much more thoroughly within the public school setting. And don't even get me started on the people who think that just because they barely squeaked out of high school, they have all of the qualifications and discipline it takes to homeschool. I am a full-time, fully-qualified high school teacher with a MA teaching license, and I never would have considered homeschooling my child. Too much work, not enough variety or integration.

Just my $.02.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
We have drug-sniffing dogs brought in by the local law enforcement. They regularly check all facets of the school. We do an unannounced hard lockdown "training exercise" to do it, and while the kids are out of the hallways, the dogs sniff every locker.
1. Why?
2. You lie to your students in order to violate their rights to be protected from an unreasonable search. Shame.

I don't know about TD's experiences, but my experiences with public schools AND drug testing have been vastly different.
See above. Constitutional rights don't end at the school yard steps.

I guess I don't see why a trained person (our school employs over twenty nurses; 4 as school nurses and the rest as instructors) who can perform a rapid urine multi-panel drug test that is suitable for most places of employment (as pre-hire, random, and post-accident) wouldn't hold up for someone who wanted to play volleyball after school. ::shrug::
Because the employers aren't handing that information over to law enforcement to prosecute.

Not all private schools are Phillips Academy. (Side note - I just love Andover. I lived in Agawam and West Springfield.) Most are affiliated with religion and are not bound to facilitate special education the way public schools are. If your child is a prodigy, then a specialized private school might be the answer. But too many parents spend the extra money for private school for their child who has an IEP or other special needs, without realizing that those needs are often met much more thoroughly within the public school setting.
Respectfully, I disagree. The kids were the parents' choice to have. They are the parents' responsibility to feed, clothe and educate. Far too many people are forced to pay for a public school system that provides poor service, bad education, and serves as the first stop in the school-to-prison pipeline. I'm all for eliminating public schools entirely.

And don't even get me started on the people who think that just because they barely squeaked out of high school, they have all of the qualifications and discipline it takes to homeschool.
Don't get me started on the education majors that can't write a coherent paragraph. I tutored many education majors when I was in college. I worked in the writing center and the absolute worst students I ever worked with were education majors. It should be embarrassing.

I am a full-time, fully-qualified high school teacher with a MA teaching license, and I never would have considered homeschooling my child. Too much work, not enough variety or integration.
Great. I am a busy father with two masters' degrees (Mass Communication and MBA) and a J.D. My wife has two masters' degrees (Communication and Leadership and MBA) and left a very lucrative career to stay home with our kids. My oldest son goes to private school. He is six. He reads at third grade level and is currently working on multiplying and dividing fraction. My youngest two kids are also being prepared for school by my wife. Children are work. It is part of the duties you take on when you have kids.

That said - I have seen far too many public schools crush students academically, mentally, and certainly legally. I welcome your difference of opinion, but I will vote to disband, defund, or destroy public schools at every opportunity until and unless they are changed from "free" daycare to actual institutions of education. They aren't.

And, oh by the way, I went to Mass public schools with a short side visit to Catholic schools-- I wouldn't wish that on the Taliban. I dropped out and joined the Army.

TD
 

dave33

Senior Member
Legally, I would never allow my children to participate in an activity that requires them to take any form of drug or alcohol test for the following reasons:
1. The schools aren't trained to do it right.
2. School administrations turn everything over to law enforcement - including any statements made by the kids.
3. Schools typically do not use qualified and accredited labs due to the cost involved.
4. Substandard labs increased the potential for error and false positives.
5. Substandard labs frequently cannot tell the difference between chemically similar substances where one is legal and one isn't - the kind of analysis that requires a gas chromatograph and mass spec machine run by a qualified technician/scientist.

Morally, I believe that participating in public school when a parent has the means or capability to send their kids to private school or home school is willful neglect. No child should be subjected to the American public school system.

TD
I made a couple of mistakes. The 1st is that my son is in tenth grade not ninth as I previously indicated. I also forgot to mention the person administering the test was a police officer. The school has one officer during regular school hours. It now seems after school activities are monitored by the police. I am not known for having a dramatic flare but I must say it seems the oppression is evolving against the students.
 

ajkroy

Member
1. Why?
2. You lie to your students in order to violate their rights to be protected from an unreasonable search. Shame.



See above. Constitutional rights don't end at the school yard steps.



Because the employers aren't handing that information over to law enforcement to prosecute.



Respectfully, I disagree. The kids were the parents' choice to have. They are the parents' responsibility to feed, clothe and educate. Far too many people are forced to pay for a public school system that provides poor service, bad education, and serves as the first stop in the school-to-prison pipeline. I'm all for eliminating public schools entirely.



Don't get me started on the education majors that can't write a coherent paragraph. I tutored many education majors when I was in college. I worked in the writing center and the absolute worst students I ever worked with were education majors. It should be embarrassing.



Great. I am a busy father with two masters' degrees (Mass Communication and MBA) and a J.D. My wife has two masters' degrees (Communication and Leadership and MBA) and left a very lucrative career to stay home with our kids. My oldest son goes to private school. He is six. He reads at third grade level and is currently working on multiplying and dividing fraction. My youngest two kids are also being prepared for school by my wife. Children are work. It is part of the duties you take on when you have kids.

That said - I have seen far too many public schools crush students academically, mentally, and certainly legally. I welcome your difference of opinion, but I will vote to disband, defund, or destroy public schools at every opportunity until and unless they are changed from "free" daycare to actual institutions of education. They aren't.

And, oh by the way, I went to Mass public schools with a short side visit to Catholic schools-- I wouldn't wish that on the Taliban. I dropped out and joined the Army.

TD
To be clear, TD, the drug-sniffing dogs during the lockdown procedure wasn't my idea...nor was I even consulted. I am so far down the ladder when it comes to actually making any decisions that, except for my obvious wrinkles and significantly better taste in attire, you would almost mistake me for a student.

From my experience, we do not "hand over" students caught with drugs, alcohol, or paraphernalia to the police, although I expect that might depend on the quantity with which they were caught. For example, we had a student who brought drugs to the prom last year. Not only was he (and his date, his companion and HIS date) asked to leave...they were prevented from taking part in Senior Week activities (trips, field days, etc) and were not permitted to participate in the graduation ceremony. It was on the news, in the paper, even a Change.org petition went around about it....and the school stuck by their decision. And I bet that a lot of kids will think twice before trying that this year.

Just as I clearly wasn't referring to you as one of the barely literate parents who shouldn't homeschool (you are obviously articulate and form well thought-out arguments), I know you aren't referring to me as one of the education majors who cannot write a coherent paragraph. I never said that NO parents are qualified to homeschool -- but I think too many parents do it for religious reasons rather than educational ones. In those cases, you have poorly educated parents who don't know what they don't know teaching their own kids, usually just to isolate them from this religion or that race or that circumstance. It is their legal right, but it is the children who are ultimately left behind.

One point where we do agree is that education should happen at home. I see my job as an extension of the cumulative education my students have achieved up to this point. Many parents treat school as the only learning environment, which means you have kids entering school at varying levels of educational development. My son went to public school, as did I. Both of us learned to read when were three. You know why? Because my parents taught me and I taught my son. He now has a 3.9 a the end of his sophomore year in college, which is, ironically, private (but I think our debate has been up to the secondary level, right?).

I am a dedicated teacher. I stay after school every day for hours beyond dismissal with students, and I work hard to create thoughtful and engaging lessons. I work in a school that is over 80% free lunch, so I cringed a bit at the public school-to-prison comment. Many of my students cannot wait until Monday because they get breakfast and lunch at school and often don't eat all weekend. I know our system isn't perfect, but if we didn't have the public school system, so many of my kids would be lost. Lost to gangs, lost to prison, lost to the never ending cycle of welfare. And this is the next generation who will be running things in the not-too-distant future. For my part, I want to cram as much knowledge into their brains as I possibly can as long as they let me.
 
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davew128

Senior Member
Most are affiliated with religion
Which is why I turned down Xaverian Bros and stayed in public school. Keep your mythological teachings to yourself. If I want to read about deities, The Mighty Thor is published once a month by Marvel Comics.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Morally, I believe that participating in public school when a parent has the means or capability to send their kids to private school or home school is willful neglect. No child should be subjected to the American public school system.

TD
HAHAHHAHAHAHA**************..BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA**************...

Seriously?
 

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