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School officals ouestion my son

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DAWN70

Junior Member
School officals question my son

What is the name of your state?Virginia
My 13 year old son was pulled out of class and questioned about a possible crime by the principle and asst.The day before they were aware that I did not want him questioned at this time.A police officer was present at that time and made arrangements with me to come to my home.I sent my son to the school the next day and he was questioned by the two mentioned.He was never asked or told he could have a parent present.When I was called I found my son in tears in the library.This is a private Christian school. :(
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Since it is a private school, the laws regarding custody and Miranda may not apply. If he confessed to a crime at the request of the school officials, and argument MIGHT be made that the confession is inadmissable because he was not free to leave and the administrators were acting as the agents of the police. But, if they were speaking to him about a school related matter, they may very well have been well within their rights.

There are too many variables to really be able to definitively answer the question. If he is being charged with a crime, consult an attorney ASAP.


- carl
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
"Students Do Not Leave Their Constitutional Rights At The Schoolhouse Gate."
Tinker vs. Des Moines School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969)
The school officials, as being present in the meeting with the police, [can] be seen an interpreted by the student as acting under agency of the police.

I think it's time for a 'come to jesus' meeting with the school board.
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
BelizeBreeze said:
"Students Do Not Leave Their Constitutional Rights At The Schoolhouse Gate."
Tinker vs. Des Moines School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969)
The school officials, as being present in the meeting with the police, [can] be seen an interpreted by the student as acting under agency of the police.

I think it's time for a 'come to jesus' meeting with the school board.
Breezie, that's interesting. I recently found out that the public school in our district, calls children into the counselor's office, scolds them whether or not they have any proof they are guilty or not. The couselor and superintendent tell the children that they not allowed to discuss anything that went on in the office.

That seems strange to me. If it were my child, I wouldn't want to condone any bad behavior on their part. However, I have seen the adults that are in a superior position, intimidate and gang up on the individual. That's not right.
 

DAWN70

Junior Member
I agree not to codone bad behavior,that is why my child was placed by me in a Christian school.But did they have the right to question him after I told them they could not.These were two people that my son feared,and has known for almost 10 yrs.Infeared I mean would do no wrong,in fear of getting into trouble.He was once given detention for streching in school.Understand his fear?
 

DAWN70

Junior Member
Breezie
Funny thing you should metion the school board.The school is afiliated with my church,the school board consist of my pastor,one member and 4 deacons,one who is also a teacher at the school.
My son has confessed and that I must deal with.But I removed him from school the day the incident was approached,I did not want him questioned at school,the police officer and I had made arrangements for him to be questioned at my home.The school did not allow this to happen before they took the questioning into thier own hands.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
DAWN70 said:
Breezie
Funny thing you should metion the school board.The school is afiliated with my church,the school board consist of my pastor,one member and 4 deacons,one who is also a teacher at the school.
My son has confessed and that I must deal with.But I removed him from school the day the incident was approached,I did not want him questioned at school,the police officer and I had made arrangements for him to be questioned at my home.The school did not allow this to happen before they took the questioning into thier own hands.
The school is a private entity and not the government. If there is some action that can be raised against them it is a civil matter ... though I'm not sure that there's a tort here.

I suspect if there is a contractual agreement that was violated, then you have grounds for a suit. Otherwise, the private school has a lot of leeway in this sort of thing.

If it's a pound of flesh you want, you might consider consulting an attorney.

- Carl
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
Actually Carl, even a school affiliated with a church must be licensed by the state. The only way this is a civil matter is if the school is not licensed.

And the situation where the counselor and school officials have warned the children to not discuss matters with others is bull.
 
BelizeBreeze said:
Actually Carl, even a school affiliated with a church must be licensed by the state. The only way this is a civil matter is if the school is not licensed.

And the blind shall lead the blind. Whether or not a school is affiliated with a church or is licensed, has nothing to do with whether it is a civil or criminal matter.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
BelizeBreeze said:
Actually Carl, even a school affiliated with a church must be licensed by the state. The only way this is a civil matter is if the school is not licensed.

And the situation where the counselor and school officials have warned the children to not discuss matters with others is bull.
Must vary by state then, because private schools out here are not held to the same standard as public schools. If they act as the agents of the police, then any statements made can be suppressed. Otherwise, they generally have the same rights and priveledges as private organizations/individuals and not the public schools.

As for not discussing what happened in the office, my guess is the statement was something akin to an admonition not to discuss them with other kids or uninvolved parties.

- Carl
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
CdwJava said:
Must vary by state then, because private schools out here are not held to the same standard as public schools. If they act as the agents of the police, then any statements made can be suppressed. Otherwise, they generally have the same rights and priveledges as private organizations/individuals and not the public schools.

As for not discussing what happened in the office, my guess is the statement was something akin to an admonition not to discuss them with other kids or uninvolved parties.

- Carl
I thought that at first too, except the councilor specifically says, they are not to discuss it with anybody, family members included. She says it is their policy to tell the children this everytime she has these meetings.

I know one of the neighbor boys, yes he gets into trouble a lot (talking up in class and being a distraction), she didn't tell him one time to keep the meeting quiet. He later was asked by the other kids why he was sent to her. He ended up getting suspended for telling them. He said, you didn't tell me this time. (Don't take this wrong, I do not condone his behavior) Also some kids get called in just because another child told the councelor they had done something wrong (true or not). First one to the councelor gets the other child in trouble. Parents aren't informed at all.

Maybe if they were to get the boys parents involved then they could nip it in the bud.

If it were my kid I would want them to discuss it with me, that way we could also handle it at home. Ultimately, I still feel I should be the main disciplinarian.

The school is there to be a learning institution. I know they have to keep order, but why the secrecy from the parents.

Sorry, it just strikes me wrong.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I have found that in my years in education and now in law enforcement (dealing largely with juvenile crimes and related delinquency) that schools are very often out of their element in dealing with discipline. By-and-large, schools are run by liberal individuals and are scared into taking sterner actions by lawsuits, lawyers, and the police. It is not generally in their nature.

And, like anyone compelled to act, they don't always act in the right way. There is a great deal of misinformation spread through schools and districts about what the staff can do, what they should do, and what the law permits them to do. And these laws can vary widely by state, so consistent and universal answers are not always possible.

The issue of not telling the parents what is going on has been happening since I was a child ... sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. Some administrators feel that the matter is school-related only, and see no need for home intervention. That may not be right to you and me, but that's the way they might see it. I have been in that boat before, and only found out about a counseling one of my son's received because he spilled it a couple days later. The school did not think it necessary to say anything because for them the matter was over and done with.

This is a battle that has been fought for decades, and will continue to be fought. Districts train and instruct staff every year, and still things get missed, overlooked, or misinterpreted.

In this particular case, depending on the circumstances, the most the DAWN70 might be able to hope for is a finding that any statements made in the presence of the police officer can be suppressed as being done outside the scope of Miranda. The rest of it has the appearance of being a civil matter.

- Carl
 

DAWN70

Junior Member
I thank all of you for your information.
I just thought the school crossed the line when the very next day after being told I didn't want him questioned,they did so any way.Know the police officer was comming to my home.Maybe all they did was break my trust.
No pound of meat wanted.
 

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