Schools responsibility (sorry long)

[DsmithAsmith]

What is the name of your state? California

My husband has sole physical and legal custody of his dd13. Her mother has supervised visits, however has never attended a visit in the 3 years the order has been in place. My husband gave the school copies of the court orders and occassionally when he knows dd's BM is going to be in town he calls the school and asks them to watch for BM to make sure she does not sneak to the school to see dd. (I said all this just to make it clear that the school is aware of the situation.)

Well it finally happened, BM went to the school last Tuesday, went right in to the office, and asked them to get dd out of class. THEY DID! They allowed DD and BM to visit out in front of the office for about 5 minutes, when they decided to check the the file and noticed that BM was not supposed to see her. They ran dd off back to class, and that was it! No one ever contacted my husband to let him know nor did they tell BM she could not come to campus to visit dd anymore. My husband called the school, and left a message for the principal, but he has not returned my husbands call.

Is the school legally obligated in any way to make sure only people who are approved pick up children, or pull them out of class? My husband is pissed and is not really sure what he should do since the school wont return his calls. Has anyone had experiance with this? If so how did you handle it. My friend suggested my husband talk with an attorney. I think it is sort of over-kill, but my husband does have valid concerns that BM might try and take dd one day. At home we keep her protected, and at school my husband expects them to do the same!What is the name of your state?

 

[ceara19]

What EXACTLY does the order say about custody, visitation and access to the child by mom? Unless it SPECIFICALLY denies mom access, the school can't and won't get involved in the matter. He may need to have the order clarified to specifically state that mom CANNOT pick the child up from school or visit the child at school without written permission from dad that must be verified by the school.

 

[LdiJ]

What EXACTLY does the order say about custody, visitation and access to the child by mom? Unless it SPECIFICALLY denies mom access, the school can't and won't get involved in the matter. He may need to have the order clarified to specifically state that mom CANNOT pick the child up from school or visit the child at school without written permission from dad that must be verified by the school.

Did you miss that mom's visits are supervised? That would automatically rule out mom visiting with the child outside of the presence of the court ordered supervisor. Therefore would rule out mom visiting at the school unless the court ordered supervisor was also present.

The school messed up. They didn't check the file ahead of time. Its an easy mistake for them to make, but it was still a mistake. Since the principal will not return dad's call, I suggest that he contact the superintendent's office. Mom could have easily left with the child.

 

[stealth2]

Did you miss that mom's visits are supervised? That would automatically rule out mom visiting with the child outside of the presence of the court ordered supervisor. Therefore would rule out mom visiting at the school unless the court ordered supervisor was also present.

I suspect it depends on exactly how the order for supervision is written.

(edit) In addition, at 13, presumably the child has a clue as to the restrictions on Mom. Why did she say nothing as soon as she walked into the school office?

 

[LdiJ]

I suspect it depends on exactly how the order for supervision is written.

(edit) In addition, at 13, presumably the child has a clue as to the restrictions on Mom. Why did she say nothing as soon as she walked into the school office?

When I was 13, I probably wouldn't have said anything....I wouldn't have wanted the embarrisment of a "scene"....but that's just me...LOL.

I understand your point about how the order is written, but more likely than not it names a supervisor. I based my answer on experience. I was the PTA president for my daughter's school for a few years and volunteered in the school office. I was trained on how to handle those sorts of situations. The fact that the school checked the file and sent the child back to class is a clear indication that they knew that they messed up.

The fact that the principal is avoiding dad's calls is another. The principal is most likely working on getting advice from the higher ups on how to handle communicating with dad on the issue.

 

[stealth2]

Well, I have to say that if it were my child and the concern was so severe, I wouldn't be hanging by the phone waiting for a callback. I'd be at the school demanding to speak with the principal.

 

[weenor]

Well, I have to say that if it were my child and the concern was so severe, I wouldn't be hanging by the phone waiting for a callback. I'd be at the school demanding to speak with the principal.

And the superintendent and the school board......next time OP may not be that lucky.

 

[CJane]

Did you miss that mom's visits are supervised? That would automatically rule out mom visiting with the child outside of the presence of the court ordered supervisor. Therefore would rule out mom visiting at the school unless the court ordered supervisor was also present.

So, I'm confused (and yes, this is a little off topic). There's a poster who had a similar situation, only he was the visitor, not the CP (DadDenied). He's been told repeatedly that even though he has ordered supervised visitation, he is perfectly within his rights to attend his children's sporting events and visit with them afterward unless the court order expressly forbids his presence at events.

So, what's the deal? Is the school really obligated to enforce court orders anyway? They're not a party to the order, and I would think, without an order expressly forbidding mom from 1) entering the school 2) speaking to the child in the presence of other adults and 3) leaving with the child, the school isn't going to involve themselves too deeply.

 

[ceara19]

So, I'm confused (and yes, this is a little off topic). There's a poster who had a similar situation, only he was the visitor, not the CP (DadDenied). He's been told repeatedly that even though he has ordered supervised visitation, he is perfectly within his rights to attend his children's sporting events and visit with them afterward unless the court order expressly forbids his presence at events.

So, what's the deal? Is the school really obligated to enforce court orders anyway? They're not a party to the order, and I would think, without an order expressly forbidding mom from 1) entering the school 2) speaking to the child in the presence of other adults and 3) leaving with the child, the school isn't going to involve themselves too deeply.

Schools are not going to get involved and interpret court orders. Even though the order states the visitation is supervised, if it does not specify that mom cannot come to the school or that mom is ordered to have NO contact outside of the court ordered visitation, the school has done nothing wrong yet. I'm sure that the INTENTION of the court order would preclude mom from picking the child up at school or having the child taken out of class so she can see her, but it needs to be spelled out in the order. Dad needs to find out what documentation the school requires to turn mom away and then have the order clarified to reflect that, IF the courts intentions were that mom not have access to the child at school.

 

[LdiJ]

So, I'm confused (and yes, this is a little off topic). There's a poster who had a similar situation, only he was the visitor, not the CP (DadDenied). He's been told repeatedly that even though he has ordered supervised visitation, he is perfectly within his rights to attend his children's sporting events and visit with them afterward unless the court order expressly forbids his presence at events.

So, what's the deal? Is the school really obligated to enforce court orders anyway? They're not a party to the order, and I would think, without an order expressly forbidding mom from 1) entering the school 2) speaking to the child in the presence of other adults and 3) leaving with the child, the school isn't going to involve themselves too deeply.

I really haven't been following DadDenied's case. I am pretty sure however that attending a public sporting event wouldn't be a problem. I don't know about the visiting afterwards...but again, I haven't followed his case.

I know that our school system very much WILL enforce court orders. Its a liability issue to them. (I think that there was a serious problem once years ago with a parent snatching a child) In fact, my daughter's elementary school asks for a photograph of the party who is not supposed to be having contact with/picking up the child(ren) at school, and posts them on the back side of the counter in the office (where the public can't see them) so that they have a face to go with the name, to help them remember.

 

[ceara19]

I really haven't been following DadDenied's case. I am pretty sure however that attending a public sporting event wouldn't be a problem. I don't know about the visiting afterwards...but again, I haven't followed his case.

I know that our school system very much WILL enforce court orders. Its a liability issue to them. (I think that there was a serious problem once years ago with a parent snatching a child) In fact, my daughter's elementary school asks for a photograph of the party who is not supposed to be having contact with/picking up the child(ren) at school, and posts them on the back side of the counter in the office (where the public can't see them) so that they have a face to go with the name, to help them remember.

While schools do ENFORCE and follow court orders that their students are a party too, they will not routinely INTERPRET them. Many times, they will follow what is clearly spelled out in the order and nothing more.

 

[stealth2]

While schools do ENFORCE and follow court orders that their students are a party too, they will not routinely INTERPRET them. Many times, they will follow what is clearly spelled out in the order and nothing more.

This, exactly.

 

[ceara19]

This, exactly.

Which is the reason that when I registered my children in school, I ONLY gave them the No Contact order that very clearly states that the FATHER (name and identifying info blacked out) is not to be within 500ft of the children and has NO right to ANY information pertaining to said children. I also blacked out his name on the BC. They didn't really LIKE it, but with no way to prove that he is even the father and no lengthy court orders to go through, it would be hard for the school to misinterpret ANYTHING.

 

[DsmithAsmith]

Reply

My SD's mothers name is not listed on any of the emergency cards or paperwork that the school gave my husband to fill out. He left it off on purpose. The exact wording of his court order is as follows

1. Evidence has been presented in support of a request that the contact of (Mother) with (Child) be supervised based upon allegations of neglect and alcohol abuse, Until further orders of the court.

The court makes the following orders
Children to be supervised:
(childs name) (DOB) (Age) (Sex)

Type:
Supervised visitation

Supervised visitaion provider:
Professional

Authorized provider:
(Supervised Visitation agency name) (address)(phone)

Duration and Frequency of visits:
One hour every two weeks at times arranged by (Supervised visit agency)

Payment responsibility:
100% Mother

The thought never crossed my mind, or my husbands that this might not be sufficient enough for the school to keep mom away from daughter at school.

After hearing the exact wording do you think my husband needs to have the order clarified, or should he go ahead with trying to reach the school superintendent.

 

[LdiJ]

I think that he should keep trying to reach the superintendent. The order is clear that mom is only allowed visitation at the visitation center, supervised by a professional. Plus she is not listed as a contact on the child's records.

That should be enough that the school should NOT allow her contact with the child.