Seller claimed Womb Chair was a particular brand and it wasn't; it's a knockoff; small claims court?

[mahstmacat]

I'm in Oregon, and I just bought a chair that was represented explicitly in an ad as "Brand: DWR" (design within reach). This kind of chair, a womb chair, is widely copied and very hard to identify as authentic or not; the differences are miniscule, just enough to avoid copyright infringement litigation. But the seller literally represented it as having bought it at DWR and reaffirmed it in a message after we got home, although he said he 'doesn't have' the receipt anymore.

When we got home with the chair, I checked measurements and it doesn't match up. We will go to DWR tomorrow and see if it's the same chair or not. If it isn't, which I strongly predict is what we'll find, do I have a case to take this person to small claims court?

Thanks very much.

 

[quincy]

I'm in Oregon, and I just bought a chair that was represented explicitly in an ad as "Brand: DWR" (design within reach). This kind of chair, a womb chair, is widely copied and very hard to identify as authentic or not; the differences are miniscule, just enough to avoid copyright infringement litigation. But the seller literally represented it as having bought it at DWR and reaffirmed it in a message after we got home, although he said he 'doesn't have' the receipt anymore.

When we got home with the chair, I checked measurements and it doesn't match up. We will go to DWR tomorrow and see if it's the same chair or not. If it isn't, which I strongly predict is what we'll find, do I have a case to take this person to small claims court?

Thanks very much.

The trademark holder would be interested in any counterfeit and infringement on their trademark rights, certainly.

And you potentially could have a claim against the seller for false advertising.

Was this a new or used item?

 

[mahstmacat]

Hi, thanks for your reply. It was used, but clearly identified in the ad as "Brand: DWR" and like I said, the seller reaffirmed that when I msg'd him after we got the chair home. OH, one more thing: he said that it was a floor model and he had had it reupholstered, which supposedly explained why there were no labels underneath...

 

[quincy]

You should wait to see what DWR says.

Did you examine the chair prior to purchase?

 

[adjusterjack]

If it isn't, which I strongly predict is what we'll find, do I have a case to take this person to small claims court?

How much did you pay for it?

 

[quincy]

How much did you pay for it?

Price is generally a good indication as to whether an item is real or fake ... but with a used item that has been modified, it might not tell you much.

 

[mahstmacat]

We paid $900 used...and I figured it was because of the fabric the person chose - two different colors -- and sometimes wealthy people just get rid of furniture they don't like, not bothering to charge much for it. To quincy: yes, we'll definitely wait until we go to DWR, and I'm taking photos with me. I examined it but I didn't have a measuring tape to measure it exactly, and I was too trusting, based on the other furniture in the office, and the fact that he specified DWR.

 

[LdiJ]

Hi, thanks for your reply. It was used, but clearly identified in the ad as "Brand: DWR" and like I said, the seller reaffirmed that when I msg'd him after we got the chair home. OH, one more thing: he said that it was a floor model and he had had it reupholstered, which supposedly explained why there were no labels underneath...

Is this chair mostly fabric, or wood with just a fabric seat? If its mostly fabric, I will tell you from experience that re-upholstering a chair is guaranteed to change its measurements to one degree or another. In fact, unless the chair has specific mechanics (like a recliner or a sofa bed) I would say that once its re-upholstered its no longer a brand name product.

 

[quincy]

Is this chair mostly fabric, or wood with just a fabric seat? If its mostly fabric, I will tell you from experience that re-upholstering a chair is guaranteed to change its measurements to one degree or another. In fact, unless the chair has specific mechanics (like a recliner or a sofa bed) I would say that once its re-upholstered its no longer a brand name product.

It depends on who does the reupholstering. It is the design that is most important with the Womb Chair.

The $900 seems low for an authentic chair, even a used chair with a questionable upholstery job. The removal of the logo would be unlikely if the chair were authentic. The original design is what a buyer is paying to get. The logo helps not only to identify an authentic from a fake but also helps tell the age of the piece.

It will be interesting to see what DWR says.

mahstmacat, you will want to hang onto the original ad that uses DWR Womb Chair to identify the chair.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Before jumping to small-claims court in the case it's a fake, why not contact the seller with your findings and see if you can come to an agreement?

 

[adjusterjack]

We paid $900 used...

The authentic chairs run from $4000 to $7000. Similar chairs (almost identical) are under $1000 brand new. There is even one on Amazon for $420 and, looking at the pictures, I can't tell the difference.

I don't think a judge would look kindly upon you for thinking you got an original for $900.

 

[mahstmacat]

Thanks, everyone. I've screenshot the ad so I have it.

Shadowbunny I definitely will take that step because at least in Oregon you have to prove you've tried to do that before you can file a claim. I have asked here because I'm trying to do advance research to know what my options are as I head into the 'working it out' phase. Knowing I have small claims as a possibility gives me another tool to work with. If I have it.

Adjusterjack, it's entirely possible, at least in my neighborhood, that a wealthy person would sell something used that they don't want anymore for far less than one would think, just to get rid of it. You'd be surprised. I do keep thinking I should have had my guard up more, but for some reason the explicit claim and the other furniture in the office, which also looks very real, and the seller, who seemed fairly normal, made me not as suspicious as I would normally be. When honest people sell knockoffs they say '-style' or '-inspired'. There are plenty of examples of Womb Chair knockoffs that use various phrasings to indicate clearly that they're not original Knoll/DWR. Claiming something fake is straight-up "DWR" is pretty bald-faced.

LdiJ, agreed re changing the dimensions with a reupholster, but the difference is only in one dimension - it's 3" narrower across than it should be, which I can't imagine is due purely to less padding, if you know the design of this particular chair. It's a fiberglass frame with a relatively thin layer of padding; the frame design is supposed to supply the comfort (it's so brilliant --do go sit in one if you can! just a side note ) . All other dimensions look right, although the ottoman is higher rather than lower than the chair seat.

 

[quincy]

So ... what did DWR say?

 

[mahstmacat]

Ha We haven't left the house yet (we're in Oregon - it's just after 10). I'll report back!

 

[quincy]

Ha We haven't left the house yet (we're in Oregon - it's just after 10). I'll report back!

Ah, yes. Time difference.

Make sure to take the ad with you when you visit DWR.

And please do report back.