Separation papers/rough draft of - is it mine or lawyers?

[Marie Loomans]

State: Missouri
I need to terminate my lawyer due to slow responses/no responses. I have the rough draft of my separation agreement. Can I make necessary changes and submit to court , or does it have to go back to attorney, or is the rough draft mine since I have paid $450. for it?????

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

Your file, and all papers within and for that file, is you property - - not the attorney's. You have an absolute right to the ORIGINAL of your entire file, and you can do whatever you want with that file.

Even if you still owe the attorney money, the attorney cannot hold your file "hostage" and must, upon demand, deliver the entire file to you.

I would recommend that you have another attorney complete the work already in progress. There's a reason why that "agreement" is still in draft form, and you don't have the legal knowledge to complete it or finalize it. You might think you can, but you can't. There are other clauses that need to be completed or included.

Good luck to you.

IAAL

 

[maryp]

Mr "Liable", whilst I'll always bow down to your legal expertise - something this lady clearly asked for, surely a bit of advice as to how she can "motivate" her lawyer into action would have been appropriate as well.

Many people come to these boards because they don't have the resources to seek advice from a lawyer. This lady has paid good money - wouldn't it have been better to offer advice as to how she can get her lawyer off his/her derrier before throwing in the towel.

Perhaps a tactful letter to the lawyer suggesting a little action? If that failed, maybe a call to the State Bar Association for advice wouldn't go amiss?

Clients expect lawyers to be competent, diligent, and prompt in their capacity as professionals. Surely it's something they should be advised to pursue before anything else.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Mr "Liable", whilst I'll always bow down to your legal expertise - something this lady clearly asked for, surely a bit of advice as to how she can "motivate" her lawyer into action would have been appropriate as well.

Many people come to these boards because they don't have the resources to seek advice from a lawyer. This lady has paid good money - wouldn't it have been better to offer advice as to how she can get her lawyer off his/her derrier before throwing in the towel.

Perhaps a tactful letter to the lawyer suggesting a little action? If that failed, maybe a call to the State Bar Association for advice wouldn't go amiss?

Clients expect lawyers to be competent, diligent, and prompt in their capacity as professionals. Surely it's something they should be advised to pursue before anything else.

My response:

Sure, that's one way. However, she's already said that she "needs to terminate her attorney" which would indicate that there is now a breakdown of trust and the attorney / client relationship; i.e., she wants to complete the "agreement" herself, rather than have her attorney complete it.

Once a client has to start writing letters, making threats, reporting to the Bar, the relationship has ended.

If I had any indication that our writer wanted to stay with her attorney, I would have recommended something along your lines - - however, the presumption is that she's already tried to be tactful, tried to communicate, and all avenues have failed. Some clients want faster action than others, or that the attorney can provide.

It's time for her to obtain a new attorney, rather than get into another battle. She's already got that going on, trying to get her divorce finalized - - which can be traumatic enough.

Good thoughts, however.

IAAL

 

[maryp]

I agree with everything you say.

I just get so angry about posts of this nature!

It's hard to find anyone these days who hasn't got a tale of woe to tell about their experiences with a lawyer (or a solicitor here in the UK). Mostly the problem isn't with their lawyers legal abilities at all - it's because of a lack of regular and informative communication!

Now that's a thought! - this has potential - a Forum all of it's own!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Take care and best wishes from a very wet and windy Oxford, UK.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Dear Mary:

Thanks for the reply. Well, it appears then, from your post, that "communication" with, to, and from, attorneys is a Worldwide problem. (Gee, really ?)

And, hello to you from beautiful, sunny and balmy California - - here in the good 'ol United States of America.

Just remember Mary. We won the war, and we can whip your butts again.

I was recently reading an article from Smithsonian Magazine, in the loo, of course, about Winston Churchhill.

What a terrific Statesman he was ! He and President Franklin Roosevelt were terrific friends. As stated by Churchill in his memoirs, he was staying at the Whitehouse in 1942, and was dictating a letter to his secretary with only a towel wrapped around him (must have been a huge towel).

Anyway, the towel drops to the ground, and just as it does, who rolls (Roosevelt was wheelchair bound) into Churchill's room ? That's right; none other than President Roosevelt.

In his wry and witty style, Churchill looks at Roosevelt and says, "You see, my dear Chap, I have nothing to hide from you."

Talk to you soon.

IAAL

 

[maryp]

Hmmmmmm!!!!! Surely you're not going to claim that the Americans have the monopoly on that as well!

What on earth would you want to go to war with us for? All we've left to offer is food and mouth, petrol at almost 5 quid a gallon and a member of the royal family who's enjoying a little unfavourable press at the moment - so what's new?

It was nice of you to share that little bit of bathroom reading with us! It's interesting to note that the relationship between Churchill and Roosevelt didn't last much after that. I always thought it was because your guy didn't support our chap in his struggle with Stalin (perhaps we shouldn't go there!) - maybe your tale had more to do with Churchill's "foreboding in his heart" than history leads us to believe.

Enjoy your sunshine.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Hmmmmmm!!!!! Surely you're not going to claim that the Americans have the monopoly on that as well!

What on earth would you want to go to war with us for? All we've left to offer is food and mouth, petrol at almost 5 quid a gallon and a member of the royal family who's enjoying a little unfavourable press at the moment - so what's new?

It was nice of you to share that little bit of bathroom reading with us! It's interesting to note that the relationship between Churchill and Roosevelt didn't last much after that. I always thought it was because your guy didn't support our chap in his struggle with Stalin (perhaps we shouldn't go there!) - maybe your tale had more to do with Churchill's "foreboding in his heart" than history leads us to believe.

Enjoy your sunshine.

My response:

Oh my goodness Mary . . . you're a bit of a history buff, yourself ? I'm going to "really" enjoy my conversations with you ! I'm particularly fond of the eras 1860 through 1865 (the American Civil War, Lincoln, and all that rot) and 1929 through 1945 (the Great Depression through to the end of WWII).

Insofar as the Royals are concerned, the Queen is a bit of a "prickly pear", isn't she ? Yes, the latest fiasco is getting a lot of press here also. But then, we had our share with Clinton.

Do the majority of Englanders still want the Monarchy ? I thought her attitude regarding Princess Diana and the funeral was appalling. It took the masses to get her to change her mind ! It wasn't just a "family tragedy" - - Diana's death was a World tragedy, and the Queen either had no idea, or didn't want to admit it. Shows just how much she cared about you guys.

We couldn't help Churchill in his struggle against Stalin. Remember, the Russians were allied with the U.S.A. also, at that time. Although, I must admit, it was a big mistake by Roosevelt - - as it turned out. Right after the War, Russia turned there nose on us, and we offended England in the bargain. I can assure you, that will never happen again !

When all is said and done, the U.S.A. and England are tied together by an unbreakable cord; never again to be tested. We may have had our differences in the past; i.e., the American Revolution, and the War of 1812, but England will always be the "Mother Country" to us. All other Allies may come and go, but England and the United States of America are always, and forever, tied together.

Roosevelt was a good man. But, like any man in his position, made some mistakes. Fortunately, his good deeds for this Country far outweighed his blunders.

Anyway, but for the Internet, I wouldn't have this great pleasure to speak with you. So, for that, I'm happy this World is just a little bit smaller. I am sincerely enjoying our chat.

Talk to you soon.

IAAL

 

[maryp]

Indeed! I am fond of history, English history - before the Civil war - 1600's - The Stuarts, Oliver Cromwell etc.

Now, you should know better that to believe everything you see or hear in the press! Oh! I'm sure Queen Liz is a little disheartened at the "track records" of her family, but that's nothing new. They are afterall, just a family with the normal everyday problems that go hand in hand with life! Fortunately, the likes of you and I can usually hide our minor indiscretions - the press make sure that we know when the Royals have so much as a zit! Talking of which! - didn't Hiliary look awful in that "blanket"? Yet another reason to be grateful for modern technology eh? HAHAHAHA!!!!!

Most still want a Monarchy - it's something we should be proud of (I think!). Brings in revenue etc. And yes, I think everyone would agree that the handling of Princess Diana's funeral was disgusting, I think it showed just how big a rift there was between Di and "the firm". Sadly however, they and the press have learnt little from the tragedy, I can see the same scenario starting with Sophie.

The US and UK "tied together by an unbreakable cord"! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You've obviously never tried to make a visit to your fair land. I like to pay my respects 2 or 3 times a year but I now know to go armed to the teeth with evidence of my intention to return home, and even then, if I arrive at the same port of entry as last time - it's bamboo under the nails time! Oh! just as a side line - that's where I got stuck with the aka "MaryP" - a while back, one of your immigration officers in Atlanta said "Wow! you sound like Mary Poppins"!!! (yawn!!! - yep! I can speak English - amazing isn't it!). A very pleasant chap I may add although his accent was a little difficult to understand at times -of Asian extraction I believe!

We've had distinguished leaders too - sadly I'm struggling to remember any in more recent years other than Maggie and Ted Heath - but then we've not had the really testing times that lead to true "commanders" showing their colours.

 

[Marie Loomans]

Answer to Maryp and IAAL

Dear Maryp and IAAL,
Well, you two made my day; your posts were very interesting! First of all IAAL was right, I have already done everything to keep the relationship with my attorney; but, alas, even faxes with little "hints" that I might have my husband use his attorney to complete the papers, didn't have any impact. The excuses I received were incredible. I only got to talk to the receptionists most of the time and she would say she was not responsible for them calling me back. All I wanted was a date when the Separation papers would be ready. Some excuses were: Lawyer is in court, secretary is out ill, secretary is working with lawyers on current cases etc. If I finally got to talk to the secretary and asked if she had typed my papers or if she had seen them - she would say she was soooo busy that she couldn't remember if she had typed them. That did it, what a lame excuse, I remember every document I type, especially if it is around 14 pages!! Well, enough on that. I am going to take the draft and rewrite it with the changes that my husband and I want and then he is going to show it to his attorney and then I want to send it to court. Can I do that?

Thanks for the info on England and America, it was very interesting. I have read the autobiographies of "Teddy" Roosevelt and FDR. I find them so interesting, especially Teddy! I have never attempted to do "posts" before and it has been so helpful. Thank you. Have a great day!.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Re: Answer to Maryp and IAAL

Dear Maryp and IAAL,
Well, you two made my day; your posts were very interesting! First of all IAAL was right, I have already done everything to keep the relationship with my attorney; but, alas, even faxes with little "hints" that I might have my husband use his attorney to complete the papers, didn't have any impact. The excuses I received were incredible. I only got to talk to the receptionists most of the time and she would say she was not responsible for them calling me back. All I wanted was a date when the Separation papers would be ready. Some excuses were: Lawyer is in court, secretary is out ill, secretary is working with lawyers on current cases etc. If I finally got to talk to the secretary and asked if she had typed my papers or if she had seen them - she would say she was soooo busy that she couldn't remember if she had typed them. That did it, what a lame excuse, I remember every document I type, especially if it is around 14 pages!! Well, enough on that. I am going to take the draft and rewrite it with the changes that my husband and I want and then he is going to show it to his attorney and then I want to send it to court. Can I do that?

Thanks for the info on England and America, it was very interesting. I have read the autobiographies of "Teddy" Roosevelt and FDR. I find them so interesting, especially Teddy! I have never attempted to do "posts" before and it has been so helpful. Thank you. Have a great day!.

My response:

Dear Marie - - it's a good thing that you and your husband can come to an agreement. That's the good news. The bad news is having his attorney review and approve the same. You really must keep in mind that your husband's attorney is not on your side, and will be reading the agreement in a biased manner in favor of your husband. Please, if at all possible, have any drafts reviewed by your own attorney prior to filing. Once filed, a settlement agreement is extremely difficult to have changed - - not to mention, expensive.

Isn't Mary Poppins terrific ? She's a wonderful writer, and an interesting person - - especially with her knowledge of history and the current "goings on". I think I've fallen in love all over again !

On behalf of Mary Poppins and myself, we wish you the best of fortune and health. Hopefully now, your matter will soon come to a mutually agreeable close.

Good luck to you.

IAAL

 

[maryp]

OOOOO!!! You made me blush! It's most refreshing to have an intellectual interlude now and again isn't it?

Thanks for including me in your best wishes to Marie Mr Liable - it was sweet of you.

 

[LegalBeagle]

See what happens when I disappear for a while, I miss all the intteligeant conversation.

Ted Heath a good leader?? Where did you get that gem from?

 

[HomeGuru]

Don't fret LB, I was here every minute reading those posts and was too cautious to butt in since it was a very enjoyable conversation.

 

[LegalBeagle]

Yes, between us, we have destroyed many a good thread!