Shoplifting in California

[bardunatorio]

What is the name of your state?undefinedWhat is the name of your state? California
My friend and I were arrested a couple of months ago for shoplifting at a department store. We only stole a shirt and a jacket, which totaled about $50-60. Both of us had a clean record before this and our court date is coming up next month. We both have the same case number and we already paid the department store fees. We just want to know what will happen in court if we plead guilty, not guilty, or no contest? We already know that we shouldn't plead not guilty because the department store has video footage of us that was turned into the police. Is it better to plead guilty or no contest? What is the difference in punishment? Will we go to jail? How much of fines and fees will there be? And if convicted, how will this affect our chances of future employment?

 

[seniorjudge]

Scape up about $5000 each and hire a very good criminal defense attorney. (Each one of you should have a different attorney.)

As to how this will affect you in the future, let me ask you something: Would you hire a thief to work in your business?

Just a thought....

 

[teddy_86]

When is your court date?
I can not give you any advice, I'm only replying because I'd like to share a little bit of what I have found out about my own situation. I have a potential serious complication with my job because of what I did. I was given a citation for petty theft, that's the title of my posting if you care for reading it. Anyhow, my situation right now is that I sent the payment that the store demanded, in my case the value of the merchandise was $32 the fine imposed by the store was $295. The letter the store sent me indicated that by paying that fine they were basically agreeing not to press charges against me. Of course, once a matter is brought up to the authorities, is up to the specific DA of your district to decide whether they want to press charges or not. I called the DA office in my district and they explained that to me and told me to wait to see what they want to do. Maybe it would be helpful to find out which judge will be preciding and to go see those arraigments and see how he or she reacts to those type of charges. I saw a judge offering the diversion program to people that were in court for drug charges, DUI and tresspassing violations. None of them had attorneys representing them. I would not advice you not to seek an attorney, I think you should be able to consult an attorney in your area at no cost, someone who should be knowledgeable or more familiar with the court where you will appear.

I was asking you when is your date in court because I would like to find out how it goes, mine was set for 1/17 by the police officer who issued the citation, he was unaware that that day is a holiday, so now I have to wait to receive a mail notification to find out when will be my date. Anyhow, I will share with you what happens if mine turns out to be before yours.

I consulted an attorney and she told me her fees would be $1,500 for appearing in court and trying to obtain a pretrial diversion. In my case this will not help me because I had no choice about telling my employer about what happened. I worked for the private industry for a long time and no one ever asked me about criminal records [which I do not have, didn't have before]. Which potential employer will ask you is unknown to me. It will vary from industry to industry and from company to company, that's for sure. In the case of employment that requires security clearance, that's another story, they will ask you the specific question that pertains to your arrest or charge, you will have to come clean and tell them the truth. Shoplifting is a crime and I would not try to justify it in anyway, but it terms of being considered for a job I do not believe that it would be a black and white, all or nothing matter. Even sex abuse charges are quite questionable. I personally have no phobias against titles, if I'm in a position to judge a sex offender for example, I would first find out if the sex offender was 19 and the victim was 17 1/2 and they were having consentual sex, before I decide to chastize the "sex offender".

 

[bardunatorio]

My friend and I don't have $5000 each to pay for an attorney. I don't have anyone to help me with getting all that cash.
Also, my court date is 2/8/05. I don't know what to plead because I know if I hire an attorney, it would mean more added expenses and I would for sure lose. The department store has video tape of my friend and I stealing and 2 eyewitnesses (security guards). Plus, we did not comply in the beginning when they first asked us.
I also had a question...is there any possible way to get the charges dropped or at least decreased? Who should my friend and I talk to?
Thanks for all the help. We really appreciate it.

 

[teddy_86]

I will look up the attorney that I consulted, she's in Northern California, I'm sure she will be able to give you some general guidance at no cost and then you can decide what would be best for you. I'm at work and I don't have the number with me.

 

[CdwJava]

Even if you plan to plead, you should consult an attorney. Pleading not guilty at the preliminary exam will also allow the court to appoint an attorney for you if you cannot afford one.

- Carl

 

[teddy_86]

I found the number, I highly recommend you give this attorney a call, she's very thorough and helpful, the number is 510-654-4470 and she will not charge you for the preliminary consultation. I think that you need to look up the yellow pages in your city so that you can find an attorney that's familiar with the judges that preside at the court where you will appear.

Check this out, I just found out the following, I got a letter from the store they charged me $295 to recover the cost of their expenses. They got their merchandise and this fee, I imagine they collect a lot of money from people like me, that are scared to death about the whole situation. I thought that if I didn't pay that fine they could press charges, what I found out is that once the store turns you over to the authorities the store can not press charges, it is apparent that even the police officer in many instances can not press charges. The letter they sent does say that payment of the fine does not guarantee that the DA will not press charges. What it does not spell out is that only the DA makes that decision. I hope that helps and I will keep you post it of whatever else I find out.

 

[teddy_86]

Question about pleading Not Guilty.
In a situation like this one where they have hard evidence and eyewitnesses, doesn't the "Not Guilty" plead set a negative precedent?
I thought that both; in this case and in mine where it is a fact the we were caught in the act, [where they recovered the merchandise from our possesion] we would be better off pleading guilty or no contest, therefore allowing the court to close the case and move on to the penalty phase. Of course I understand the implication is that we will have to deal with having a misdemeanor in our records [but I fail to see how anyone could avoid it, it seems to me, no one can, right?]

In my case if I want to work with the goverment I have no choice about trying to hide it, my only chance and the only good chance for anyone in this situation when applying for a job, any job, is to tell the truth and let the potential employer make a decision after hearing the extent of the crime committed; otherwise the potential for an employer to find that out on his own would mean loosing the job. So, having said that, I ask [to attorneys] what is the difference between a conviction for a misdemeanor vs a statement that will explain that I was charge with a misdeameanor and then after succesfully completing a diversion program, it was dismissed, expunged or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is, once someone finds out that a misdemeanor was file against me, they would want to know what it was and what it implied. So these are two scenarios that I'm facing, when explaining my situation to a potential employer:
1. I took merchandise valued at $32, but I went to court and the judge gave me the opportunity to do community work and after paying fines, etc., the charge was dissmissed and expunged from my records.
2. I took merchandise valued at $32, and that's the misdemeanor that you see in my records.
I need to understand what are the advantages of being in situation 1.

 

[Happy Trails]

Teddy86, what the store if fining you for is allowed by the state, to recover restocking fees, security guards any other expenses, etc...

SECTION 1. Section 490.5 is added to the Penal Code to read: (c) when an adult or emancipated minor has unlawfully taken merchandise from a merchant's premises, the adult or emancipated minor shall be liable to the merchant for damages of not less than fifty dollars ($50.00) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500.00), in addition to the retail value of the merchandise, if not recovered in undamaged condition, plus costs. An action for recovery of damages, pursuant to this subdivision, may be brought in small claims court if the total damages do not exceed the jurisdictional limit of such court, or in any other appropriate court. The provisions of this subdivision are in addition to other civil remedies and do not limit merchants or other persons to elect to pursue other civil remedies. "

Bardunatorio, I understand you have already made restitution to the store.

What is the citation code? Is it petty theft?

PC490.5(a)
"Upon a first conviction for petty theft involving merchandise taken from a merchant's premises or a book or other library materials taken from a library facility, a person shall be punished by a mandatory fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) and not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) for each such violation; and may also be punished by imprisonment in the county jail, not exceeding six months, or both such fine and imprisonment."

If that is not the code, this link will enable you to look up the citation:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/484-502.9.html

Teddy86, you can also follow the link, since your theft was under $50.00, you would be under 490.1. (a).

 

[bardunatorio]

Thanks for all the info and the number. I think that I will just call attorneys in my area for some legal consultation.

Also, my citation number is PC 484-488 Petty Theft.

But since both my friend and I were caught (each of us with one item costing $25 each), can we ask the DA for an infraction? How do we go about this trying to change the misdemeanor to an infraction? Is it possible?

Thanks again for all the help. You all have really provided answers to my questions.

 

[CdwJava]

Thanks for all the info and the number. I think that I will just call attorneys in my area for some legal consultation.

Also, my citation number is PC 484-488 Petty Theft.

But since both my friend and I were caught (each of us with one item costing $25 each), can we ask the DA for an infraction? How do we go about this trying to change the misdemeanor to an infraction? Is it possible?

Thanks again for all the help. You all have really provided answers to my questions.

I don't believe it can become an infraction, but you might be able to receive only a fine as punishment as part of a plea deal. Chances are you face probation and a fine ... you might even be able to get a deferral program if your DA has one and offers it up. That means the offense might be wiped away if you do well on probation for a couple years.

Talk to an attorney.

- Carl

 

[teddy_86]

It would be greatly appreciated if someone [knowledgeable] could shed some light on what are the implications to pleading not guilty to a petty theft charge under the circumstances that we had laid out in these two cases.

 

[CdwJava]

It would be greatly appreciated if someone [knowledgeable] could shed some light on what are the implications to pleading not guilty to a petty theft charge under the circumstances that we had laid out in these two cases.

The implications are that you would go to trial or receive a plea bargain offer. My guess is that you would be offered a couple years probation, a fine, and required restitution.

At arraignment you should be able to receive an attorney appointed by the court. That attorney can explain to you the likely penalties and your options.

- Carl

 

[bardunatorio]

I just had a quick question to ask. I know I should talk to an attorney and since my friend and I are poor college students living at home, we can't afford an attorney ourselves. How do we go about getting a public defender? Do each of us need a public defender even though we have the same case number? How do you know if you're eligible for a public defender? Also, how do we find out about a deferral program so that this can be wiped off our record?

 

[CdwJava]

I just had a quick question to ask. I know I should talk to an attorney and since my friend and I are poor college students living at home, we can't afford an attorney ourselves. How do we go about getting a public defender? Do each of us need a public defender even though we have the same case number? How do you know if you're eligible for a public defender? Also, how do we find out about a deferral program so that this can be wiped off our record?

At your arraignment you should be asked about an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one can be appointed for you at that time. However, if you are dependent upon your parents (as college students), the court may presume that you can obtain an attorney through them ... I'm not sure. And I am not sure what the income requirements are for a publicly paid attorney.

And your attorney will be aware of deferral programs if any exist. In fact, the DA may even offer them up as an incentive to plead the case out.

- Carl