Sibling Harassment/Escalated

[Schmee]

WA State

My mom fell suddenly ill in January and was hospitalized. During her hospital stay my sister stole over twenty thousand dollars from her while hospitalized. There is an ongoing investigation on her that includes many things like fraud and forgery and elderly abuse.

I was one of the people who reported her to the police and ever since then she has interjected herself in my life to try and smear me.

I told her to stop contacting me on February 7th and have not responded to her since. After that she texted me a few times but eventually stopped and then started again then stopped when I still refused to engage. Her daughter then started sending me disgusting and vulgar messages calling me fat and cursing at me and disparaging my 10 year old daughter by calling her retarded. She straight up threatened to call CPS and the cops on me. She told me to say goodbye to my loser daughter, that she's going to tell the cops I'm a drug dealer, and they're going to get CPS to take away my kid. I also told her to stop contacting me. She then used a different phone number to continue similar threats. After all of this, my sister sent her friend to send me text messages trying to bait me into a response. I ignored her as well.

After she stopped texting me she went to other family members and sent them texts making up lies about me and smearing me. I have copies of them from several members. Her messages are long and disjointed and she clearly sounds out of her mind.

That lasted for awhile. I never responded. Today, though, I went to therapy and my therapist handed me a paper print off. It was a letter to my therapist from my sister where she claimed I was abusing my medication, accusing me of selling Adderall (which I don't even have a prescription for and do not use,) calling me a pathological liar, and just going on and on with lies and accusations. She ended it with veiled threats, basically saying how it'd be such a shame when I go to jail for drug peddling and will be forced to detox in jail and how my whole family hates me. She also stated she never wants to see me again. Yet she is still on this rampage. She also threatened to report my therapist which he laughed at but still.

I feel very threatened and I'm tired of her popping up in my life after breaks. I can't keep up with her drug ups and downs and it's stressful. My sister has a long history with meth, breaking the law, and violence. I grew up with her meth mania but now she is bringing my kid into it. I feel like she is stalking me now. There would be no way she knows my therapist's name unless she had someone follow me or followed me herself. She is scary when she is crossed. Is there anything at all I can do to protect me and my daughter?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[stealth2]

It would probably be wise to consult a lawyer to see what the best course of action might be.

Kudos for not responding.

 

[Schmee]

It would probably be wise to consult a lawyer to see what the best course of action might be.

Kudos for not responding.

It's been a killer. Many... many messages typed and deleted. Thank you for acknowledging the restraint on my end!

What kind of attorney could potentially help me?

 

[stealth2]

What kind of attorney could potentially help me?

I would think one who practices general law. I'm certain I'll be corrected if there's a better option.

 

[quincy]

I would think one who practices general law. I'm certain I'll be corrected if there's a better option.

An attorney who specializes in defamation law could be a good choice - if anyone contacted by the unhinged sister actually believes anything the sister has said about Schmee. A cease and desist letter from the attorney that threatens legal action could, at least, stop the flow of falsehoods.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington-defamation-law

 

[Schmee]

An attorney who specializes in defamation law could be a good choice - if anyone contacted by the unhinged sister actually believes anything the sister has said about Schmee. A cease and desist letter from the attorney that threatens legal action could, at least, stop the flow of falsehoods.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington-defamation-law

Defamation? I was hoping I had enough information to get an anti-harassment order or something. I want her to leave me alone!

 

[Zigner]

No, not defamation, and frankly, you may not even need an attorney.

Antiharassment Protection Order (AHPO)
To protect against unwanted contact or behavior that causes substantial emotional distress and serves no legitimate or lawful purpose. The contact could be a pattern of behavior that occurs over time, or a single act or threat of violence. The contact must be directed specifically at the protected person and be seriously alarming, annoying, harassing, or detrimental.

For additional information, see https://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.contribute&formID=142

 

[Schmee]

No, not defamation, and frankly, you may not even need an attorney.

Antiharassment Protection Order (AHPO)
To protect against unwanted contact or behavior that causes substantial emotional distress and serves no legitimate or lawful purpose. The contact could be a pattern of behavior that occurs over time, or a single act or threat of violence. The contact must be directed specifically at the protected person and be seriously alarming, annoying, harassing, or detrimental.

For additional information, see https://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.contribute&formID=142

Thank you. My question I think is, given what I have provided here, does it seem like this is worthwhile to pursue in court? I know that burden of proof is on me and I have proof of the things I've said in my initial post but I want to know if it is enough for a judge to consider. I have never been to court and I want to make sure I have a good chance before proceeding.

 

[commentator]

Schmee, I am going to diverge a bit from the other advice. I sort of believe, due to a lifetime of working with this type of troublesome situations, that any attention is reinforcing to the stalker/agitator in a situation such as you describe. Even a letter from an attorney will be an acknowledgement of the fact that she is getting to you. Kudos for not responding, as has already been said. And the strongest reinforcemnt is intermittent reinforcement. If having not said or done anything at all to acknowledge your sister's behavior, you suddenly contact an attorney and have her served with a cease and desist letter, it MAY work to scare her away. But if she is sorta psycho anyhow, it might just thrill her to death to get to respond,, "Think you can scare me with your stupid attorney? No, no you can't I'm going to blah blah blah......." They can go on with it forever, especially if there's a lot of reaction from their victim.

First of all, I would advise you to make yourself as invisible to this person as you possibly can be. Set your privacy settings on all social media as high as can go, with her thoroughly blocked. Tell your friends and other relatives, that you do not want to hear anything she says about you. Let them know you don't want to hear it, you will not listen to it, and they are welcome to listen if they want to, but they can also refuse. As long as she is making you feel bad, worry, be concerned, etc., as your word for word rehearsal of the mean awful things that she is saying shows, she is successful. Kudos to you for using the therapist. Bravo to you for having sought these services.

Be diligent in self-protective measures. Keep people informed of your whereabouts. Keep a very good eye on your child. Report any real face to face confrontations to the police.. Press charges. Keep your doors locked. Be aware of people following you or watching you. Keep yourself aware of your circumstances and surroundings. But just wanting her to STOP DOING IT is not going to happen, unless you keep on ignoring it and not providing her with feedback long enough to extinguish the behavior. If there's no pay off, in that she's not getting feedback that she is driving yyou crazy, upsetting you, hurting your feelings, etc. it will be much more likely to stop.

Are you going to prevail in court? I strongly doubt if there's enough of anything here to bring charges or ever see a court case. Insulting people, threatening people is not really what they're thinking of with orders of protections. But even if there was, what a mess, what a big reward for doing a bunch of ugly talking! I'd avoid it if at all possible, and believe me, such a case would in no way make her leave you alone or stop saying bad things about you!

Meantime, believe me, child protective services gets bunches of these crazy people reporting each other because they are fighting with each other, she ratted me out, complaints. Do not be afraid, if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, there's no way her threats are going to be anything but a possible minor irritation. And remember, just because somebody says something does not mean it is true, certainly does not mean you have to embrace it, think about it, build a shrine around it, "on June 3rd, she called my child....." or "she said I was fat"(or skinny, or dumb or whatever.....) I know it is hard, but you know it is her problem, she is hopefully going to be punished for the situation she put herself in regarding your mother, and what you should concern yourself with is taking care of yourself, your child, and also your mom to some extent. But do your best to not let her grab your whole attention and not to provide her with any feedback. I recommend "The GIft of Fear" by Gavin deBecker which I think has a very good discussion of stalking. I wish you well. Be safe. Be away from this, as much as you possibly can be.

 

[Schmee]

I'm pretty sure it's a combination of meth and a full blown personality disorder.

First of all, I would advise you to make yourself as invisible to this person as you possibly can be. Set your privacy settings on all social media as high as can go, with her thoroughly blocked. Tell your friends and other relatives, that you do not want to hear anything she says about you. Let them know you don't want to hear it, you will not listen to it, and they are welcome to listen if they want to, but they can also refuse. As long as she is making you feel bad, worry, be concerned, etc., as your word for word rehearsal of the mean awful things that she is saying shows, she is successful. Kudos to you for using the therapist. Bravo to you for having sought these services.

I'm pretty private online already, and as for blocking her on social media I did that along with her blocking her daughters when I told them to stop contacting me.

It's in my experience that she will throw her tantrums and blubber about how she's the real victim and smear her target (whoever calls her out) for maybe a couple of weeks and then move on. I've never seen her so consistently go out of her way to involve other people like this. And why now? She was practically non-existent for a good couple months until the letter. I really do feel like she might be stalking me. Like how did she even know who my therapist is? My mom doesn't even know his name. He thinks she's deranged but even still the fact that she thought she was going to prove something in some way to him is pretty concerning.

I am familiar with the grey rock approach you've described. That is typically my go to response and why I haven't reacted. But we do share a mom and I of course am the one that does most of her care taking because in addition to being a psychotic bully, my sister is also a stereotypical deadbeat. Once mom's money dried up she moved on - but only for the most part. Unfortunately she still shows up. I dread these interactions more now that she seems to be going extra lengths to get me.

Part of me wants to send her friends and boyfriend and all her kids the nasty text messages she's written about them in the past. She's had some doozies. I know it doesn't solve anything really but petty revenge has crossed my mind.

Thank you for the good advice and reading what I had to say. I wish there was more I could do about her pestering me like this but I also know that I likely won't get any relief until she actually hurts someone.

 

[quincy]

I'm pretty sure it's a combination of meth and a full blown personality disorder.



I'm pretty private online already, and as for blocking her on social media I did that along with her blocking her daughters when I told them to stop contacting me.

It's in my experience that she will throw her tantrums and blubber about how she's the real victim and smear her target (whoever calls her out) for maybe a couple of weeks and then move on. I've never seen her so consistently go out of her way to involve other people like this. And why now? She was practically non-existent for a good couple months until the letter. I really do feel like she might be stalking me. Like how did she even know who my therapist is? My mom doesn't even know his name. He thinks she's deranged but even still the fact that she thought she was going to prove something in some way to him is pretty concerning.

I am familiar with the grey rock approach you've described. That is typically my go to response and why I haven't reacted. But we do share a mom and I of course am the one that does most of her care taking because in addition to being a psychotic bully, my sister is also a stereotypical deadbeat. Once mom's money dried up she moved on - but only for the most part. Unfortunately she still shows up. I dread these interactions more now that she seems to be going extra lengths to get me.

Part of me wants to send her friends and boyfriend and all her kids the nasty text messages she's written about them in the past. She's had some doozies. I know it doesn't solve anything really but petty revenge has crossed my mind.

Thank you for the good advice and reading what I had to say. I wish there was more I could do about her pestering me like this but I also know that I likely won't get any relief until she actually hurts someone.

I recommend you avoid “petty revenge.”

If the statements are causing you harm or you are threatened with harm, you have legal avenues to explore.

 

[Schmee]

I recommend you avoid “petty revenge.”

If the statements are causing you harm or you are threatened with harm, you have legal avenues to explore.

I won't. It's only a fantasy.

Since my last login she has gone on to email other family members with the same routine. It never stops.

It seemed to me like the consensus was that I really didn't seem to have much in the way of recourse apart from the advice to grey rock her.

Has she harmed me? Sure, but in the subjective kind of way that I don't know how to prove. She hasn't laid a finger on me since we were kids and I certainly can't prove that now. How do you prove a veiled threat? Can you? Her flying monkey has threatened cops and cps on me but is that a threat threat? Contacting my therapist is creepy and stalkery but it's not illegal as far as I can tell.

I have old text messages where she talks about other people she is upset with, where she says she'll run the person over 'accidentally' in her car and make it look like an accident. Another text where she brags about having the bail bondsman in her pocket and how she can get out of anything. Another one where she makes more threats about other people and brags about how she isn't afraid of a little jail time because her boyfriend is a cop and can get her out. None of that was directed at me and a lot was probably blowing off steam, but still. This is the kind of person I'm dealing with.

She has threatened me in person, but I can't prove that. Is that enough?

I don't have tons of money to pour into defending myself but I wish I did. Even if I did, I'm not sure who to reach out to. Someone mentioned a general lawyer. I tried looking stuff up and everything pointed to family attorneys, but those seemed to be domestic violence related. Someone else here said I might not even need one.

I guess I just don't know where to start or what to do. I think I'm just overwhelmed.

I appreciate all of the kind words and understanding though.

 

[LdiJ]

I won't. It's only a fantasy.

Since my last login she has gone on to email other family members with the same routine. It never stops.

It seemed to me like the consensus was that I really didn't seem to have much in the way of recourse apart from the advice to grey rock her.

Has she harmed me? Sure, but in the subjective kind of way that I don't know how to prove. She hasn't laid a finger on me since we were kids and I certainly can't prove that now. How do you prove a veiled threat? Can you? Her flying monkey has threatened cops and cps on me but is that a threat threat? Contacting my therapist is creepy and stalkery but it's not illegal as far as I can tell.

I have old text messages where she talks about other people she is upset with, where she says she'll run the person over 'accidentally' in her car and make it look like an accident. Another text where she brags about having the bail bondsman in her pocket and how she can get out of anything. Another one where she makes more threats about other people and brags about how she isn't afraid of a little jail time because her boyfriend is a cop and can get her out. None of that was directed at me and a lot was probably blowing off steam, but still. This is the kind of person I'm dealing with.

She has threatened me in person, but I can't prove that. Is that enough?

I don't have tons of money to pour into defending myself but I wish I did. Even if I did, I'm not sure who to reach out to. Someone mentioned a general lawyer. I tried looking stuff up and everything pointed to family attorneys, but those seemed to be domestic violence related. Someone else here said I might not even need one.

I guess I just don't know where to start or what to do. I think I'm just overwhelmed.

I appreciate all of the kind words and understanding though.

Start by having a talk with the police and see if what she is doing would be considered stalking. Call the non emergency number.

 

[quincy]

I won't. It's only a fantasy.

Since my last login she has gone on to email other family members with the same routine. It never stops.

It seemed to me like the consensus was that I really didn't seem to have much in the way of recourse apart from the advice to grey rock her.

Has she harmed me? Sure, but in the subjective kind of way that I don't know how to prove. She hasn't laid a finger on me since we were kids and I certainly can't prove that now. How do you prove a veiled threat? Can you? Her flying monkey has threatened cops and cps on me but is that a threat threat? Contacting my therapist is creepy and stalkery but it's not illegal as far as I can tell.

I have old text messages where she talks about other people she is upset with, where she says she'll run the person over 'accidentally' in her car and make it look like an accident. Another text where she brags about having the bail bondsman in her pocket and how she can get out of anything. Another one where she makes more threats about other people and brags about how she isn't afraid of a little jail time because her boyfriend is a cop and can get her out. None of that was directed at me and a lot was probably blowing off steam, but still. This is the kind of person I'm dealing with.

She has threatened me in person, but I can't prove that. Is that enough?

I don't have tons of money to pour into defending myself but I wish I did. Even if I did, I'm not sure who to reach out to. Someone mentioned a general lawyer. I tried looking stuff up and everything pointed to family attorneys, but those seemed to be domestic violence related. Someone else here said I might not even need one.

I guess I just don't know where to start or what to do. I think I'm just overwhelmed.

I appreciate all of the kind words and understanding though.

Perhaps you can force a mental health evaluation? Here is a link to information on Washington’s Involuntary Treatment Act:

https://www.hca.wa.gov/assets/program/fact-sheet-involuntary-treatment-act-2022.pdf

 

[commentator]

Perhaps you can force a mental health evaluation? Here is a link to information on Washington’s Involuntary Treatment Act:

https://www.hca.wa.gov/assets/program/fact-sheet-involuntary-treatment-act-2022.pdf

Holy cow, THAT would light her up all right!!! If you can do that to someone, force a mental health evaluation, I'd be grateful she hadn't tried to do that to me yet. Honestly, my whole family is full of people I would sincerely love to force a mental health evaluation on, but I do not think we have that here.

Seriously, I think you're doing great with the grey rock. Possibly talk to the police. After having done that, I know just exactly what I need to say to have the police come if my hubby's long ago ex shows up in our driveway...(I do not KNOW if she's armed or not. I do know she has had mental problems and has made threats........I feel afraid/worried about what she might do.....) All true things, that will encourage them to come check out the situation before it becomes really bad.