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Signature line on lock box whited out

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HMB3

Member
The state is KY. The sign-in form to access lockbox from a local bank was whited out and signed by another party. The chain of who accessed appears broken. Most local attorneys also do business with this bank. Who should I contact outside of local authorities preferably federal to see if there is an actionable cause?
 


Just Blue

Senior Member
The state is KY. The sign-in form to access lockbox from a local bank was whited out and signed by another party. The chain of who accessed appears broken. Most local attorneys also do business with this bank. Who should I contact outside of local authorities preferably federal to see if there is an actionable cause?
Do you mean safe deposit box? Is it your box?
 

HMB3

Member
Correct. My parents lock-box. I was the executor of the estate and had full access. My issue with this is a chain of WHO access the box and the banks duty to keep a proper access log of same. No side notes as to who or why white out was applied. Most bank employees I have spoken with say that is improper action either policy-based or statue.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
The state is KY. The sign-in form to access lockbox from a local bank was whited out and signed by another party. The chain of who accessed appears broken. Most local attorneys also do business with this bank. Who should I contact outside of local authorities preferably federal to see if there is an actionable cause?
Is anything missing from the box? If the answer is no then what exactly is your concern? There are no federal or KY laws that specify exactly how a bank must operate its safe deposit boxes, i.e. nothing that spells out what is required for access, what logs (if any) must be kept, etc. Those things are determined by bank policy. State common law (court decisions) will require that the bank have taken reasonable measures for the protection of the things stored in the safe deposit boxes. If something is missing from the box you may have a claim to sue for damages (i.e. the value of the missing item). If nothing is missing then there is nothing for which to sue.
 

HMB3

Member
Yes, some things were taken that changed the outcome of the estate. This IS NOT bad feelings or I did not get my way BS. This points to the bank NOT "taking reasonable measures for the protection of the things stored in the safe deposit boxes." Also points to collusion from bank and other family members. My problem is finding the right authority that is outside of local control of our community.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
some things were taken that changed the outcome of the estate.
What was taken?
By who?
How did it change the outcome of the estate?
How many dollars did you lose as a result?

My parents lock-box. I was the executor of the estate
Your parents are both deceased?
Were you appointed executor by the probate court?
Or were you just nominated in the wills?

If you were appointed executor by the court at the time of their deaths, why didn't you remove the items from the box and safeguard them?

My problem is finding the right authority that is outside of local control of our community.
No, I think your problem is that you are blaming the bank for something that "family members" are responsible for. If you are indeed the court appointed executor you have the power of the court behind you to go after the "family members" for recourse.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
My problem is finding the right authority that is outside of local control of our community.
It's a civil problem between you, the bank, and family members you suspect were involved. What was taken from the box, when was it taken (i.e. before or after you became executor), how did it affect the estate and how did the person get access to the box? All of that information is important in sorting whether you have a good lawsuit here and against whom. But make no mistake, this is up to you in your role as executor to address. There isn't a state or federal regulatory body that can help you since the boxes are not subject to any specific regulation. If what happened amounts to theft, then what you'd do is make a complaint with the local police about that.
 

HMB3

Member
Adjusterjack, Yes I was appointed co-executor and my cousin (by my request to break any disputes) by the probate court. Father passed in 99, attorney over 60 years... Mother passed 2014, teacher almost 50 years. Younger brother passed 2016, attorney, district judge.

What was taken from the lockbox were the deeds to the home place that had the "right of survivorship" clause which gave Mother 100% ownership. That coupled with my Dad dying intestate (brother's job to probate will) canceled her will change allowing the brother to still have an interest in the property she specifically intended for me, she suspected something was not right, hence the change of the will. What it did create was a force of sale option or I sign off on probate and he relinquishes his interest. No choice in the matter. Also, probate orders allowing my cousin and me to access the box weren't followed UNTIL the brother was present at the bank. The bank called him to report our activity. He got off the bench to attend meetings at the bank. In the last meeting at the bank, we discovered that deeds were missing and no log entries were made as to who entered the box.

Believe me this is very complicated and goes back some years. The whiteout on the bank card is very small compared to the involvement of whom and what has transpired.

Edit: Taxing Matters, local judicial bad swamp. I have seen the good but it's becoming more corrupt... Most of my family for a 100 years have served the judicial, judges, senators, legislators, and attorneys...
 
Last edited:

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Why weren't the purported deeds file with the appropriate county? What proof do you have that the purported deeds even existed and/or weren't removed and destroyed prior to the box-holder's death by the box-holder?
 

HMB3

Member
Why weren't the purported deeds file with the appropriate county? What proof do you have that the purported deeds even existed and/or weren't removed and destroyed prior to the box-holder's death by the box-holder?
Deeds were in box when first opened. Witnessed by both executors and handwritten notes from Dad telling where they were. That's how we discovered them. Unsure why he did it that way. Before he passed he was listing all properties deed book and page # cheat sheet to help Mom. Good question, why not filed with the clerk as all others were but that one?
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
Believe me this is very complicated and goes back some years. The whiteout on the bank card is very small compared to the involvement of whom and what has transpired.
Doesn't look complicated to me. You settled the estate with your brother. You got the house, he got whatever. Now you want to blame the bank because the opportunity to deal with family members is gone.

The deed apparently wasn't recorded so there's no evidence that it ever existed. Even if there was extrinsic evidence of its existence (noted in your last comment) it would be moot because you already settled with your brother.

I think any action you take against the bank will come to naught but you are free to pursue it if you like.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
What was taken from the lockbox were the deeds to the home place that had the "right of survivorship" clause which gave Mother 100% ownership.
The problem here is that the deeds stuffed in a safe deposit box of your parents are not any good to you. I assume that you mean the deed was to have made your mother and father owners as joint tenants with a right of survivorship, which then would have meant that the property then became the sole property of your mother upon her death. But that deed is not effective until recorded, and that needed to be done while your father was alive. Once your father died and his estate probated it was too late to do anything with that deed. And as your father apparently died 20 years ago, and the estate presumably probated about that time, it is too late now to do anything with that deed even had you found it in the box.

That coupled with my Dad dying intestate (brother's job to probate will) canceled her will change allowing the brother to still have an interest in the property she specifically intended for me, she suspected something was not right, hence the change of the will.
If your father had a will and your brother was in possession of it, did you bring an action in the probate court to compel him to bring forth the will? If not, why not? Again, as your father died 20 years ago, the failure of your brother to bring forth the will and lodge it with the court is too late to complain about now.

Neither of those problems are things that the bank access to the safety deposit box would have made any difference. White out alone on the log doesn't make the case that the bank improperly allowed access to the box. Was access given to someone who was not authorized to access it, and can you prove it? And is there something missing from the box that would have actually made a difference in the outcome of that property for you?


Edit: Taxing Matters, local judicial bad swamp. I have seen the good but it's becoming more corrupt... Most of my family for a 100 years have served the judicial, judges, senators, legislators, and attorneys...
From this I'll gather that your family has considerable influence in the local community, that you don't get along with those family members, and that you lack the influence they have. That is a problem that can indeed occur in small towns. Whether that influence really amounts to corruption is another matter, but either way it certainly makes things more difficult for you. But so far I'm not seeing where you have anything to pursue against the bank for the troubles you have had with getting the property interests you believe you were entitled to get.
 

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