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Slip and fall with a splash of gross negligence

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Just Blue

Senior Member
JB - I know, nobody has more respect for my fiance than I do. I'm a careless handful at times.

Thanks for chiming in CBG. Again, I agree with all of you on the "lawsuit lottery" point and frankly, so does she. Deromanticizing this story for a moment, we have laughable expenses from this scenario. A few bucks on dry cleaning, less than a dollar on facial tissu. Hell, I have more invested on internal damage control than a judge would ever see me reimbursed for lol. So now that it's established I'm not motivated entirely by my greedy nature, keep in mind. I'm not letting either one of us rush out and burn up our dollars, tax payer dollars or the patience of a judge so let's keep the playing field here in mind. We're simply taking the time to get educated to learn how all this stuff works. I have learned a lot from the responses but honestly folks, when you're seeking understanding on something you don't know AND you're already intelligent, history teaches you not to accept the guidance of the first flippant response you receive. So please, if you all are going to participate in the discussion, please take a moment to appreciate where we are coming from. I made our position clear in the initial conversation starter. I'm new to the site, I am reading the site T's and C's now however, no one is forcing your participation so I think some of us have the opportunity here to provide more value than dramatic deep sighs. That's not productive. Let's face it, not all attorneys and legal professionals are sleazy "attorneys" where they will let me pay them $1k an hour to be my therapist. Just looking for education and support here guys, that's all.
You were properly advised in post 2 and 3...everything else is just icing on the cake of knowledge. I will add even more colorful sprinkles by way of of this link :

https://www.gabar.org/


Call and they will refer you to an attorney that will, for a minimal fee (around $50.00), consult and educate you regarding slip and fall liability.

You're Welcome.
 


Mack1481

Member
I'm very sorry your girlfriend hurt herself when she slipped in the dog poop. (that's the support).

She does not have a lawsuit of any kind. (that's the education)
Love the candor, thank you. Wish I got more of that from my coworkers. From an employment attorney perspective, thank you for the insight.

JB - thanks for the website. I'll take a look. I'm leaving this thread open however for anyone else, who hopefully, is more knowledgeable on this particular area of law, has a successful track record FIGHTING arguments in this space, that isnt passive aggressive in nature.
 

Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
I can only speak as a landlord in Georgia (although not in Gwinnett county). Georgia is a state that tends to be very landlord friendly. While I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve here, a filing a lawsuit in Magistrate/Civil court is about money and at this point, what are your damages? Cost of clothes cleaning? Did the girlfriend ever get checked out medically?

Gail
 

Mack1481

Member
I can only speak as a landlord in Georgia (although not in Gwinnett county). Georgia is a state that tends to be very landlord friendly. While I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve here, a filing a lawsuit in Magistrate/Civil court is about money and at this point, what are your damages? Cost of clothes cleaning? Did the girlfriend ever get checked out medically?

Gail
Hi Gail. On the compensatory side, yes, trivial costs. On the other side, and this is where my "additional information" comment from before comes in. There are several things we are finding here that are unacceptable and at least in our learnings of the law are illegal and a number of safety hazards. For instance, our neighbors have children between the ages of 5-x who love to play outside. Walking out dog just now. We came across an opened and abandoned prescription bottle in the middle of the street less than 100 yards away from where these kids play. There are 7 pills laying in the street where my dog has access and those kids or any kids who go to that playground would have access. No clue what the pills are. Their side effects. If they are safe for animals or small children to consume without the review of a use case and legal prescription from a medical professional. At what point does someone draw the line on publicly available, negligible safety? After my dog or my child gets sick because I’m distracted for 10 seconds because I’m reading an reading an email or receive a phone? We can all sit here and easily rationalize the arguments of what my role in the situation is however, what about the role and legal responsibilities of the property? None of the participants on this thread are even acknowledging that and frankly, nobody will get a 5 star rating from me until I see it. You want the ratings? Earn it. You want my money, earn it. You want justice? Fight for the kid who might take those pills AFTER you hear about it on the news.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
You presented one situation for which the landlord's responsibility is minimal at best. We are not mindreaders. We are unable to comment on situations of which we have no knowledge. If it's not in your post, we don't know about it and can't comment.

You don't get to sue for something that might happen or might have happened, only what did. No child or dog did get sick because of the pills, therefore you have no lawsuit.

Tell me, how often do you expect the landlord to inspect the premises to ensure that no one has dropped anything? Twice a day? Once an hour? Once every ten minutes?
 

Mack1481

Member
Frankly, it doesn't matter what I or you think the proper inspection frequency is. The law does / should have the responsibility of providing a reasonable definition that would answer your question. You're the attorney, so why don't you tell me; how does the law answer that question?
 

Mack1481

Member
Frankly, it doesn't matter what I or you think the proper inspection frequency is. The law does / should have the responsibility of providing a reasonable definition that would answer your question. You're the attorney, so why don't you tell me; how does the law answer that question?
Additionally, with the exception of one individual responding privately, the responses I have been given here have been obnoxious, impatient, immature, and highly prescriptive without anyone asking questions and doing proper due diligence. So I can see why the T's and C's mention the"legal participants" views do not reflect that of the website services. So aside from the gentleman who responded privately, him and the website are the only true objective and professional contributors to our concerns this far. Because if you can honestly say for yourself that you have provided us with ANY value here whatsoever, then I think when you find out soon that you're probably not going to be very successful in law as much as you could be if you managed to find a way to get paid for trolling the comments on YouTube videos because that is our current perceived value of the help you have provided so far.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
As I indicated, I am not a lawyer, although I work with employment law on a regular (daily) basis.

I have, however, been polite and attempted to answer your questions in the manner to which you appeared to request. Obviously I misinterpreted what you were looking for. I believed it was accurate legal information. It would now appear that is not the case.

It is clear now that only one answer will be acceptable to you, and that is the answer in which you are told a means by which you are able to hold the landlord legally responsible for everything that is dropped by tenants, or by anyone passing through, even if they had cleaned the yard only ten minutes before.

As I do not believe such a means exists, I will not annoy you any further with answers that do not suit your requirements.
 

Mack1481

Member
That is the nicest thing you have said CBG, thank you. JB - if he wanted his name or alias to be visible then he wouldn't have messaged me privately, would he? Guess what, I won't offer it for the same reasons he didn't - he's avoiding the trolls. Can't say I blame him. As for your comment about not knowing what a username is...lol I design the platforms we are communicating on so the comments you're sitting over there patting yourself on the back for are pretty lame and frankly, charitably painful to read. You should really consider learning your opponent before you engage them. Again, are there any inputs from ANY SUCCESSFUL and EDUCATED folks that can connect with me here please? This board game is mildly entertaining but even I can only take so much of Will Ferrell's intelligence scale for so long.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
A couple of weeks ago, my fiance took our dog out one morning and without seeing it, slipped on a large pile of waste and fell on her back. She had the waste all over herself and her clothes and immediately got back up, took a picture of the waste, and came back inside to clean herself up....I explained that my fiance is in pain due to the fall and that she would be going to be evaluated by a medical provider. She asked my fiance if she was okay and my fiance explained that she was going to see a doctor to make sure.
I've quoted the essential facts of the incident in question. The landlord is only liable to your fiancée if the landlord was negligent and the landlord's negligence was the proximate cause of the injury she suffered. If the landlord was negligent then what the landlord is liable to pay is compensation for the actual harm suffered by your fiancée suffered as a result. Here that would be any cost of cleaning the clothes if she had to take them the cleaners and reimbursement of medical costs she incurred as a result of the negligence. As others have already pointed out, she cannot win anything for injuries she might have suffered but didn't nor can either of you successfully sue for damages for incidents that might occur but have not yet happened.

In order to determine whether the landlord was negligent it would be important to know whether the landlord had been informed of that particular pile of dog waste and if so, how long the landlord knew before your fiancée slipped in it. It is also important to know how regularly the landlord's employees check the grounds for this sort of thing and when the last check was done before the incident where your fiancée slipped and fell. Bear in mind that the landlord is not required to have the property in perfect condition nor is the landlord required to clean up this stuff the moment it happens. What the landlord must do is follow reasonable procedures to eliminate the potential risks. A reasonable schedule of inspection and fairly prompt clean up of issues found, for example, would tend to meet the landlord's responsibility. The law does not fix a definite schedule for what the landlord must do, i.e. there is no specific black letter rule that says it must be done every 2 hours or whatever. The trier of fact — the jury, or the judge if there is no jury — would decide what is reasonable based on all the evidence presented. Note that to find out much of what is needed to really pursue this matter would require extensive discovery in the litigation, and that isn't cheap.

Even if the landlord was negligent, the landlord may defend based on any negligence of your fiancée in failing to avoid a hazard she saw or should have seen had she been paying proper attention. So if that pile of dog waste was in a spot that made it readily visible to people walking by then she should have seen it and avoided it. If she failed to do that then she was also negligent. In that circumstance under Georgia's comparative negligence scheme the trier of fact must then determine the degree of fault for each party. If the trier of fact decides that your fiancée was at least 50% at fault for the slip and fall, she recovers nothing. If the trier of fact determines that your fiancée was less than 50% negligent but was at least somewhat negligent then her damages will be reduced by the degree of her fault.

So, given the cost it would take to properly litigate this your fiancée would need to have some significant damages to make it worthehile. So far it is not clear that she has any damages beyond cleaning clothes and cost of a doctor's visit (if she actually did go to a doctor over this). It is not at all clear the landlord was negligent in the first place. But even if the landlord was negligent, there is a very real possibility that your fiancée would be determined at least 50% at fault and in that case she'd get nothing.

Slip and fall lawsuits aren't a lottery where you win huge amounts for very little in actual damages. So far I'm not seeing enough here to justify the cost and trouble to sue the landlord. But your fiancée may of course consult a personal injury lawyer about it. Most will give free initial consultations. Just don't get your hopes up very high that the lawyer will tell you there is a great case to be had here. Small incidents like this are generally things not worth pursuing.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Frankly, it doesn't matter what I or you think the proper inspection frequency is. The law does / should have the responsibility of providing a reasonable definition that would answer your question. You're the attorney, so why don't you tell me; how does the law answer that question?
The responsibilities of the landlord and the responsibilities of the tenants should be spelled out in the lease agreements.

For example, in the lease agreements I use for my rentals, there is a clause saying that the resident is responsible for promptly notifying the landlord of any condition that is in need of the landlord’s attention and the landlord, in turn, agrees to keep the premises in reasonable condition and repair.

If a resident violates the pet requirements (e.g., following the leash law, removing pet waste), it is considered a breach of the lease agreement and the resident can be fined or the lease can be terminated.

Any legal action your fiancée might have seems better aimed at the tenant who failed to deposit their pet’s waste in the proper container. A responsible pet owner carries waste bags with them in case all of the bags provided for free by the landlord are used up.

You can always ask an attorney in your area to read over the lease agreement to see if there is any cause of action worth pursuing against the landlord or the dog owner. Without compensable damages, I think your fiancée will discover that the answer is that there isn’t. In other words, I agree with the previous responses.


(thanks for the kind words, Just Blue :))
 

Mack1481

Member
I've quoted the essential facts of the incident in question. The landlord is only liable to your fiancée if the landlord was negligent and the landlord's negligence was the proximate cause of the injury she suffered. If the landlord was negligent then what the landlord is liable to pay is compensation for the actual harm suffered by your fiancée suffered as a result. Here that would be any cost of cleaning the clothes if she had to take them the cleaners and reimbursement of medical costs she incurred as a result of the negligence. As others have already pointed out, she cannot win anything for injuries she might have suffered but didn't nor can either of you successfully sue for damages for incidents that might occur but have not yet happened.

In order to determine whether the landlord was negligent it would be important to know whether the landlord had been informed of that particular pile of dog waste and if so, how long the landlord knew before your fiancée slipped in it. It is also important to know how regularly the landlord's employees check the grounds for this sort of thing and when the last check was done before the incident where your fiancée slipped and fell. Bear in mind that the landlord is not required to have the property in perfect condition nor is the landlord required to clean up this stuff the moment it happens. What the landlord must do is follow reasonable procedures to eliminate the potential risks. A reasonable schedule of inspection and fairly prompt clean up of issues found, for example, would tend to meet the landlord's responsibility. The law does not fix a definite schedule for what the landlord must do, i.e. there is no specific black letter rule that says it must be done every 2 hours or whatever. The trier of fact — the jury, or the judge if there is no jury — would decide what is reasonable based on all the evidence presented. Note that to find out much of what is needed to really pursue this matter would require extensive discovery in the litigation, and that isn't cheap.

Even if the landlord was negligent, the landlord may defend based on any negligence of your fiancée in failing to avoid a hazard she saw or should have seen had she been paying proper attention. So if that pile of dog waste was in a spot that made it readily visible to people walking by then she should have seen it and avoided it. If she failed to do that then she was also negligent. In that circumstance under Georgia's comparative negligence scheme the trier of fact must then determine the degree of fault for each party. If the trier of fact decides that your fiancée was at least 50% at fault for the slip and fall, she recovers nothing. If the trier of fact determines that your fiancée was less than 50% negligent but was at least somewhat negligent then her damages will be reduced by the degree of her fault.

So, given the cost it would take to properly litigate this your fiancée would need to have some significant damages to make it worthehile. So far it is not clear that she has any damages beyond cleaning clothes and cost of a doctor's visit (if she actually did go to a doctor over this). It is not at all clear the landlord was negligent in the first place. But even if the landlord was negligent, there is a very real possibility that your fiancée would be determined at least 50% at fault and in that case she'd get nothing.

Slip and fall lawsuits aren't a lottery where you win huge amounts for very little in actual damages. So far I'm not seeing enough here to justify the cost and trouble to sue the landlord. But your fiancée may of course consult a personal injury lawyer about it. Most will give free initial consultations. Just don't get your hopes up very high that the lawyer will tell you there is a great case to be had here. Small incidents like this are generally things not worth pursuing.

Thank you very much for your response, a conversation and understanding is all I have been asking for here. I had a similar conversation with her highlighting some of your points when it happened. Priority one at the time, getting her calm and relaxed. She wasn't out of control by any means but emotional nonetheless. Got her cleaned up, took care of her clothes in the other bathroom, and that gave her time to decompress. No dry cleaning costs because they weren't necessary. Frankly, dog mess is stinky mud - no big deal. I'm sure you might agree with that. Where we do have an issue in this situation and forgive me if I forgot to include it before, we sent 4 requests into the office informing them they were out of bags for residents to use to clean this stuff up. I love my fiance however I won't ever forget that she's human. So when she told me she fell in dog mess, my instinctive curiosity was she might be full of what she claimed to have stepped in so I challenged her on it. Take me outside, show me where you fell. She couldn't find it at first although we went to the exact area she swore to have fallen in. Keep in mind, we are in Georgia and we're in the brunt of fall so there are leaves blowing and flying around everywhere. Just when I was about to write her off, she found it and showed me. Her shoe print in it and all. Okay, now this is plausible and couples well with us making multiple pleads to the office to get this stuff cleaned up. Now, I appreciate the irony as much as I'm sure that you do that she happened to be the one who fell on what she predicted. Hence my initial skepticism. So either my fiance is gone girl or the math actually adds up. Continuing to look around the property, we realized that we're walking around what feels like a feces infested minefield that requires the skills of a hopscotch champion to navigate without stepping into them. It would be easier to just teach our dog to do their business in the middle of the street and pick it up from there and avoid it all together. But that wouldn't work because my neighbors drive like idiots... regardless of the speed bumps. So! We have the documentation to show that we have notified them repeatedly, there is arguable justification on how she fell. Despite the fact that she has no permanent damage or is unable to work. There is a civil argument that can be made against the property for neglecting the information and notifications they have been given. And yes, I took her to my chiropractor where he has captured information and collected payments that, frankly, is otherwise useless of a judge or attorney's time and infinitely worse, ours. So, again, what we are caring about here is we are trying to be good neighbors and residents by letting them know of a problem that we assume they are unaware of because the problem has both been sitting and piling up for weeks at a time and they ignore their responsibility to do anything about it. They were extremely condescending and patronizing when we took this problem to them and as I am sitting here writing this response, the problem has still not been taken care of. Ultimately, that's the solution we are after. Education, understanding of rights and someone to teach them that next time someone slips and falls on a pile of dog mess, they might not be so fortunate for that person to be someone who can hit the chiropractor drive thru for a few visits and be fine. It could be an 80 year old elderly woman who might require several thousands of dollars in repair costs. Do you see where we are now? The motivation here is about others and ourselves. If there was any financial gain for us to get from this, we are simply only interested in being able to move out of the property, fine and early termination fee free, and go find a better experience where people are treated better and folks live up to the responsibilities they are legally and financially required to obey. That's it. Attorney's however can't pay their bills and put their kids through college nor can they maintain escrow nesteggs going around fighting for principle alone, not would we ever ask one to. With that said, in all fairnesses on the table and being justly considered. What are the realistic chances an attorney can take this story, strongly worded, with documentation, photos, and date / timestamps into a negotiation targeting settlement instead of a courtroom yet not afraid to go there if need be with what we have here? We are quickly learning with our story from other residents that there are several situations where they are getting the short end of the stick and they just take it on the chin. It appears that NO ONE is standing up to these people for fear of losing their place to live. My fiance and I have the luxury of not having to be that paranoid. We can afford to move at any time therefore we can afford to speak up. That reality has this property management company in a very uncomfortable position for them. Hence we have earned bargaining power. Does it feel like enough to you guys for an attorney to step and pay for their time with the story? I don't know but that's what I'm asking. If an attorney can get us fine free out of the lease, put some coin in their pockets for their time and we all walk away happy, great! If not, great! If an attorney has the wherewithal to build a case against what we have just learned to be a legal lease agreement with a reported $1B property management company that has more than 50 employees thus raising the punitive damage ceiling to a greater capacity AND the attorney brings in a larger pot for us to divide amongst ourselves, then great! I'll buy the first round when the judgement is signed.
 
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