harbor lady
Junior Member
What is the name of your state? new york, suffolk county
this is no longer a question, but more of a heads up to those involved in the small claims court stage of a landlord tenant dispute.
my story is about a landlord who was renting an illegal accessory apartment (despite my signed month to month lease, i had no idea) in a private home when water/property damage occurred due to broken water fixture upstairs in his portion of the house.
it was uninhabitable. he talked of getting a trailer for temp storage of my stuff in the backyard while repairs were made, that fell through the 1st week. he spoke of helping me look for another place to live temporarily, that fell through the 2nd week. then he notified me mid month that i'd have to be out in 2 weeks because contractors would be coming. the terms were if i left on that date i'd get a full refund of security, the months rent i wasnt living there, & damages would be decided upon a later date when things settled down out w/ his insurance company.
he harrassed me on the phone & in person every opportunity he got to bully me out of that apartment so his work could get done in a timely fashion. but it all came at my expense.
rentals in the area went up $300 more than i was paying at the time. i'd exhausted myself trying to make this unreasonable timeline- hunting down a residence elsewhere on such short notice, holding down a F/T job + mandatory OT, trying to mitigate ongoing damages, access what stays & goes, hiring movers etc that i cut a tendon in my hand while packing my things. in the ER, attempting to repair the tendon, they cut the nerve. this required microsurgery, & a substantially reduced income from disability. then mom had a heart attack.
must be luck of the irish? <weg>but i digress...
with a broken hand & drugged not enough to enjoy all this, i lived up to the agreement of being out on certain date. broom cleaned, i had the wherewithall to end my ongoing video tape with the material condition i left it in..
he said fine, i handed him the key, asked for my check, and he said he'd have to "take it up with his accountants". then he quoted to me the monetary value of my 401k plan and claimed his portfolio wasnt looking that healthy. (ie, he had been rumaging through my personal papers).
i waited two months before going back, asking for the money again. he responded by telling me he didnt FEEL he owed me anything at all. threatened me with tresspassing while in his driveway. when i said he left me no choice but to file a claim in court against him, he told me "i can make your life a living hell. i'm 'connected', & come to think of it- you damaged my house, but good luck trying to prove you ever lived here"
i decided to file in small claims court because i wanted the most expeditious resolution of this case. i didnt want this to drag on for years in depositions and nonsense. i wanted this weasel off my screen. i just came back from court today, and here is what you can expect if you are in new york small claims for suffolk county:
small claims court is extremely limited. i didnt have a judge, i had an arbitrator. the case was heard today, & i wont hear about a decision for ten days in the mail. no appeals are allowed in this court.
just before the proceedings, the arbitor insisted upon getting two estimates for any damaged property for repair/replacement to be considered as sufficient evidence. i almost wasnt prepared. i specifically asked the clerks when i filed what is considered sufficient evidence. they are not responsible to tell you prior to the court date. i would have been sunk if not for the videotaped evidence being secondary documentation apart from reciepts. NOTE- if you cant document it thoroughly, it never happened.
things like punitive damages/pain and suffering wont be considered. only direct material damages are considered in suffolk county small claims. secondary problems associated w/ the issue were summarily ignored. i expected him to outright dismiss my personal injury (because although it happened on his property, i ACTUALLY did it to myself), and only wanted to convey that this entire incident from begining to end has cost me dearly, but mentioning it only seemed to piss the guy off.
officers of the court dont care to be talked to in snippy tones or characterizing others negatively as part of your case. talk to the judge, not to the weasel. you arent mad at the judge. got it? the LL got a smack upside for making disparaging remarks about me during testimony. despite my own anger i managed to refrain and stuck with facts, which seemed to curry favor.
in open court my LL testified to inviting a neighbor in my home to 'witness' the damage (aka alibi) without my presence, notice, or consent. he even provided an affidavit from said neighbor, documenting his own guilt. this breach of the law was ignored wholesale. this court apparently has no authority of enforcement, despite the clear violation of my personal rights as a tenent.
at the same time, the arbitor refused to witness the affidavit on the grounds that he couldn't cross examine a piece of paper. witnesses must be present to testify or they don't exist.
when i revealed it was an illegal accessory apartment, the disposition of the arbitor turned very harshly toward the defendant. he looked down, jotted some writing, then looked back up with an annoyed face. i suspect fines are on the way for my ex LL.
two other things seemed to hurt my LL's case as well. firstly he asked for an extension, trying to play dumb, and showed up with a lawyer for small claims. the proceedings are informal, and those putting on airs/using big words get smacked upside. the lawyer floundered when the minutae of the law was brought up, the arbitor rolled his eyes and reminded him where he was. my 1st trip to the court i was overdressed. today i went in casually & seemed to be taken more seriously. go figure.
hindsight lessons learned=
1. if you dont have a legal accessory apt, govt housing reps can do nothing for you by way of defense/enforcement other than throw you out of your home & fining the landlord for everyday you remain on premises after they catch him. in ny, ostensibly, you have no rights as a tenent in an illegal accessory apt. when no governing authority will take real action about it beyond making your life more difficult.
2. cops dont respond to these kinds of disputes unless violence or disturbing the peace is involved, which wont help you in court. i wanted a witness for my attempt to be paid, but they wouldnt come.
3. dont accept a place to live without some sort of lease agreement in place unless you can afford to move every 30 days. it puts you in a very vulnerable position.
4. FOR GODS SAKE GET RENTERS INSURANCE!! (i never knew it existed before the roof came in on my head). at the time the premium would have been something like $170 /yr added onto my car insurance bill. big ole DUH.
5. a LL in need of a personality abortion isnt against the law, and nobody cares to hear anything about it. tuff nooggies
6. if i were more on the ball about protecting myself i would have stopped payment on the rent check for that month. (damages april 2nd, check cashed april 4th)
7. dont allow yourself to be bullied by a LL. they WILL lie. they WILL try to scare you into submitting to their demands. greed is their primary motive. get it in writing, have witnesses who would be willing to testify, or make a consentual recording of the agreement. if i'd only worked at my own pace, i wouldn't have incurred the permanent disfiguring injury, and the massive pricetag of 30k loss in income and medical deductibles/copays.
8. using netsleuth to do a background check on this guy was a waste of money, time and effort, because netsleuth doesnt work, plus any related evidence i might have found had it been working would have been tossed in the hopper as irrelevant.
if only...
if i had taken HIS time (by way of using the apartment as storage) to deal with the mess he made of my possessions, i would still likely be in small claims court with the same damaged goods reciepts, but i would have incurred far less monetary losses from stem to stern, even if they countersued for rental monies of the eviction period. don't pay the ferryman till he takes you to the other side kind of thing.
$30,000 income + health + $675 rent april + $700 do it yourself move savings + $510 saved rental storage time sums out far greater than three months rent.
i made the mistake of trying to be fair, of taking on his problems that were tangled up in my own, and taking responsibility for them when i had more on my plate than i could chew. i guess citizenship classes went by the wayside for a reason. i was very naive to believe the law would protect me, or that any other player in this scene would hold fairness as a primary goal.
justice will not be served without a great deal of work. no one else can magically make that happen for you unless you pay them to do so, & even then, there is no guarantee you wont get a floundering lawyer on game day as my LL witnessed.
anything to add to the woulda shoulda column, i'd love to hear it.
i hope this story can help yall learn from my mistakes.
(ps- will post a follow up when the judgement comes in the mail. it will be far more brief than this sordid tale! lol)
this is no longer a question, but more of a heads up to those involved in the small claims court stage of a landlord tenant dispute.
my story is about a landlord who was renting an illegal accessory apartment (despite my signed month to month lease, i had no idea) in a private home when water/property damage occurred due to broken water fixture upstairs in his portion of the house.
it was uninhabitable. he talked of getting a trailer for temp storage of my stuff in the backyard while repairs were made, that fell through the 1st week. he spoke of helping me look for another place to live temporarily, that fell through the 2nd week. then he notified me mid month that i'd have to be out in 2 weeks because contractors would be coming. the terms were if i left on that date i'd get a full refund of security, the months rent i wasnt living there, & damages would be decided upon a later date when things settled down out w/ his insurance company.
he harrassed me on the phone & in person every opportunity he got to bully me out of that apartment so his work could get done in a timely fashion. but it all came at my expense.
rentals in the area went up $300 more than i was paying at the time. i'd exhausted myself trying to make this unreasonable timeline- hunting down a residence elsewhere on such short notice, holding down a F/T job + mandatory OT, trying to mitigate ongoing damages, access what stays & goes, hiring movers etc that i cut a tendon in my hand while packing my things. in the ER, attempting to repair the tendon, they cut the nerve. this required microsurgery, & a substantially reduced income from disability. then mom had a heart attack.
must be luck of the irish? <weg>but i digress...
with a broken hand & drugged not enough to enjoy all this, i lived up to the agreement of being out on certain date. broom cleaned, i had the wherewithall to end my ongoing video tape with the material condition i left it in..
he said fine, i handed him the key, asked for my check, and he said he'd have to "take it up with his accountants". then he quoted to me the monetary value of my 401k plan and claimed his portfolio wasnt looking that healthy. (ie, he had been rumaging through my personal papers).
i waited two months before going back, asking for the money again. he responded by telling me he didnt FEEL he owed me anything at all. threatened me with tresspassing while in his driveway. when i said he left me no choice but to file a claim in court against him, he told me "i can make your life a living hell. i'm 'connected', & come to think of it- you damaged my house, but good luck trying to prove you ever lived here"
i decided to file in small claims court because i wanted the most expeditious resolution of this case. i didnt want this to drag on for years in depositions and nonsense. i wanted this weasel off my screen. i just came back from court today, and here is what you can expect if you are in new york small claims for suffolk county:
small claims court is extremely limited. i didnt have a judge, i had an arbitrator. the case was heard today, & i wont hear about a decision for ten days in the mail. no appeals are allowed in this court.
just before the proceedings, the arbitor insisted upon getting two estimates for any damaged property for repair/replacement to be considered as sufficient evidence. i almost wasnt prepared. i specifically asked the clerks when i filed what is considered sufficient evidence. they are not responsible to tell you prior to the court date. i would have been sunk if not for the videotaped evidence being secondary documentation apart from reciepts. NOTE- if you cant document it thoroughly, it never happened.
things like punitive damages/pain and suffering wont be considered. only direct material damages are considered in suffolk county small claims. secondary problems associated w/ the issue were summarily ignored. i expected him to outright dismiss my personal injury (because although it happened on his property, i ACTUALLY did it to myself), and only wanted to convey that this entire incident from begining to end has cost me dearly, but mentioning it only seemed to piss the guy off.
officers of the court dont care to be talked to in snippy tones or characterizing others negatively as part of your case. talk to the judge, not to the weasel. you arent mad at the judge. got it? the LL got a smack upside for making disparaging remarks about me during testimony. despite my own anger i managed to refrain and stuck with facts, which seemed to curry favor.
in open court my LL testified to inviting a neighbor in my home to 'witness' the damage (aka alibi) without my presence, notice, or consent. he even provided an affidavit from said neighbor, documenting his own guilt. this breach of the law was ignored wholesale. this court apparently has no authority of enforcement, despite the clear violation of my personal rights as a tenent.
at the same time, the arbitor refused to witness the affidavit on the grounds that he couldn't cross examine a piece of paper. witnesses must be present to testify or they don't exist.
when i revealed it was an illegal accessory apartment, the disposition of the arbitor turned very harshly toward the defendant. he looked down, jotted some writing, then looked back up with an annoyed face. i suspect fines are on the way for my ex LL.
two other things seemed to hurt my LL's case as well. firstly he asked for an extension, trying to play dumb, and showed up with a lawyer for small claims. the proceedings are informal, and those putting on airs/using big words get smacked upside. the lawyer floundered when the minutae of the law was brought up, the arbitor rolled his eyes and reminded him where he was. my 1st trip to the court i was overdressed. today i went in casually & seemed to be taken more seriously. go figure.
hindsight lessons learned=
1. if you dont have a legal accessory apt, govt housing reps can do nothing for you by way of defense/enforcement other than throw you out of your home & fining the landlord for everyday you remain on premises after they catch him. in ny, ostensibly, you have no rights as a tenent in an illegal accessory apt. when no governing authority will take real action about it beyond making your life more difficult.
2. cops dont respond to these kinds of disputes unless violence or disturbing the peace is involved, which wont help you in court. i wanted a witness for my attempt to be paid, but they wouldnt come.
3. dont accept a place to live without some sort of lease agreement in place unless you can afford to move every 30 days. it puts you in a very vulnerable position.
4. FOR GODS SAKE GET RENTERS INSURANCE!! (i never knew it existed before the roof came in on my head). at the time the premium would have been something like $170 /yr added onto my car insurance bill. big ole DUH.
5. a LL in need of a personality abortion isnt against the law, and nobody cares to hear anything about it. tuff nooggies
6. if i were more on the ball about protecting myself i would have stopped payment on the rent check for that month. (damages april 2nd, check cashed april 4th)
7. dont allow yourself to be bullied by a LL. they WILL lie. they WILL try to scare you into submitting to their demands. greed is their primary motive. get it in writing, have witnesses who would be willing to testify, or make a consentual recording of the agreement. if i'd only worked at my own pace, i wouldn't have incurred the permanent disfiguring injury, and the massive pricetag of 30k loss in income and medical deductibles/copays.
8. using netsleuth to do a background check on this guy was a waste of money, time and effort, because netsleuth doesnt work, plus any related evidence i might have found had it been working would have been tossed in the hopper as irrelevant.
if only...
if i had taken HIS time (by way of using the apartment as storage) to deal with the mess he made of my possessions, i would still likely be in small claims court with the same damaged goods reciepts, but i would have incurred far less monetary losses from stem to stern, even if they countersued for rental monies of the eviction period. don't pay the ferryman till he takes you to the other side kind of thing.
$30,000 income + health + $675 rent april + $700 do it yourself move savings + $510 saved rental storage time sums out far greater than three months rent.
i made the mistake of trying to be fair, of taking on his problems that were tangled up in my own, and taking responsibility for them when i had more on my plate than i could chew. i guess citizenship classes went by the wayside for a reason. i was very naive to believe the law would protect me, or that any other player in this scene would hold fairness as a primary goal.
justice will not be served without a great deal of work. no one else can magically make that happen for you unless you pay them to do so, & even then, there is no guarantee you wont get a floundering lawyer on game day as my LL witnessed.
anything to add to the woulda shoulda column, i'd love to hear it.
i hope this story can help yall learn from my mistakes.
(ps- will post a follow up when the judgement comes in the mail. it will be far more brief than this sordid tale! lol)