Sold on craigslist and was never paid

[dbb9581]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.
I recently was hired by a person to do some HVAC work at his business. This guy then stiffed me for around 10K. I know that as a unlicensed contractor I can not sue for labor, but can I sue for selling him material and not receiving payment. It was about 4K in material. Thank you.

 

[acmb05]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.
I recently was hired by a person to do some HVAC work at his business. This guy then stiffed me for around 10K. I know that as a unlicensed contractor I can not sue for labor, but can I sue for selling him material and not receiving payment. It was about 4K in material. Thank you.

Are you licensed to sell this type of material? If not then you are out 10k.

 

[dbb9581]

I am not licensed for any sales, but nobody is on craigslist. Some people sell cars and that's as much or more money than I was dealing with. Where is the line drawn that says I can sell a house or car but not a piece of metal that I fabricated.

 

[justalayman]

some hvac equipment requires governmental cretification and/or licensing to sell and to be allowed to buy. You will be going in to court and telling a judge you were breaking federal laws by installing equipment that requires a federal certification to be allowed to work on and then ask him to give you your money. Not a good position to be in.

a court will not help you collect money gained by illegal means.

 

[dbb9581]

I didn't buy any equipment. It was all copper pipe and sheet-metal ductwork that I fabricated myself out of flat stock. I am Certified just not licensed. What he owes me for anyone can go to home depot to get. Bending it is a learned trade but I didn't sell him an hourly service I sold him 4 custom ventilation hood vents and some custom square ductwork. The way I fell about it (and please don't think I'm trying to argue) is that there is nothing different in what I did than a guy selling a car that he worked on. Am I wrong?

 

[justalayman]

given that, you may have a chance. The business owner is not entitled to an unjust enrichment but I suspect you will be able to recoup only the cost of the raw material since you are not licensed so you making and selling him ductwork is more than just going to home depot and picking the stuff up.

You did sell him your labor when you made anything out of the raw stock.

 

[dbb9581]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Law is complicated I much prefer sheet metal. I think I'll try to get my money with a more old fashioned approach. Thank you for your time, goodnight.

 

[tranquility]

The statute is pretty harsh. Not only can you not sue, they can sue you to get back any monies paid. Sorry.

The argument that you are a supplier of goods is interesting. While I don't think it is a winner, you might see an attorney (quickly, so that if possible you can file a lien) to find out if you can get compensation for the goods. Depending on the amount of goods, it might be worth an hour or so of an attorney's time.

 

[CraigFL]

Most places will allow owners and others to buy and install equipment as long as it is inspected before put into operation- check your local laws. In the case of HVAC you would only need to have the proper license to remove and charge the system with freon.

 

[justalayman]

Most places will allow owners and others to buy and install equipment as long as it is inspected before put into operation- check your local laws. In the case of HVAC you would only need to have the proper license to remove and charge the system with freon.

have you missed something here craig? The OP hired himself out to a homeowner to install ductwork and from what it sounds, maybe the line set for an AC system. OP stated he did not provide refrigerant services.

Regardless of that, he does not have a license to do HVAC work at all, even that not including refrigerant services. That is his problem. A license is reqqired, in California, to do this work as a business.

 

[stephenk]

sue him in small claims court. the limit is $7500. You are entitled to the cost of the materials you obtained and the time you took to fabricate the ducts. You most likely won't get the labor rate for installing the system.

 

[tranquility]

stephenk's advice is so wrong as to get the OP countersued for malicious prosecution and will cost him the defendant's attorney costs and other fees.

 

[justalayman]

Not sure I see the malicious prosecution situation but maybe.

C20 - Warm-Air Heating, Ventilating and Air-Conditioning ContractorBusiness & Professions Code
Divison 3, Chapter 9. Contractors, Article 4. Classifications


A warm-air heating, ventilating and air-conditioning contractor fabricates, installs, maintains, services and repairs warm-air heating systems and water heating heat pumps, complete with warm-air appliances; ventilating systems complete with blowers and plenum chambers; air-conditioning systems complete with air-conditioning unit; and the ducts, registers, flues, humidity and thermostatic controls and air filters in connection with any of these systems. This classification shall include warm-air heating, ventilating and air-conditioning systems which utilize solar energy.

Authority cited: Sections 7008 and 7059, Reference: Sections 7058 and 7059 (Business and Professions Code)

§ 7117. Acting as contractor under unlicensed name or personnel




Acting in the capacity of a contractor under any license issued hereunder except: (a) in the name of the licensee as set forth upon the license, or (b) in accordance with the personnel of the licensee as set forth in the application for such license, or as later changed as provided in this chapter, constitutes a cause for disciplinary action.




Added Stats 1939 ch 37 § 1.

Section Violated 7117

Minimum Civil Penalty $100

Maximum Civil Penalty $1000

So, the problem becomes; how do you go to court, explain what you were doing and still want to get paid.

If there was someway to avoid that info, you might get away with the materials thing but if this guy is half smart, he is going to explain the entire story to the court.

one question that comes to mind is; was this guy aware you were not licensed? If so, I still believe the unjust enrichment situation is pertinent. While what you were doing was illegal, if the business owner was aware you were not licensed, it may be looked at as he intended to defraud you from the begininning.

I would suggest speaking with an attorney about this. There may be a way to recoup some of your expenses but chances are, you are going to get hit with the penalty for operating without a license as well.

tranq; if you have a specific statue regarding this and the part about the business owner being able to sue, I would appreciate it. I have not found it but am interested in reading it.

 

[tranquility]

Guys, I've seen the statute and the cases enforcing it. It is a harsh statute which makes no difference what the person who contracts knows. If a person puts out an ad for an unlicensed contractor and gives him money as an enticement to start work he is still not liable for the cost of the contract and can sue the unlicensed contractor for any money given on the contract. There is no unjust enrichment or unclean hands or anything like that, it is a matter of law.

The materials issue is not as clear. I'm sure there is case law out there and would love for someone to look it up. It's just that I haven't and don't know the result. It seems different to me. But, because of the absolute nature of the underlying statute, I don't have any guarantees. I'd bet the OP can't recover the money for the materials, but don't know.