SSI Benefit Owe $4000 Decision and Advice

[idanny76]

I am trying to make sense of what I can do and if a someone can help me with this matter. My wife became ill about 10 years ago and when she got to the point where she could not longer work, we decided to apply for Social Security. She has multiple debilitating conditions which have gotten worst. She has been diagnosed with Fibromialgia, Disc Degenerative disease, Short term memory, Hypoglycemic, Arthritis, Hemophilia and I don't remember the rest. She has been very ill since her early 30's. Recently she cannot walk for long period of time, because she gets muscle fatigue. She was using a walker and now has a foldable motorized wheel chair.


When it all started and she was ill, but not as severe as now.... After submitting the original Social security claim... we were denied. We decided to go to a lawyer to work on it for us. The lawyer explained to us that we had two choice after looking at her case. He explained she was short on work credit to qualify for social security. He mentioned that they could go to court and try to proof that her illness started before a certain date, but that it would be difficult depending on the type of judge she would get assigned. He said that if they got a judge that was difficult and the case gets denied, she would not get Social Security or SSI. He said we had the choice of applying for SSI and we should get approved quickly.


We thought about it and the idea of not getting a more lenient judge and being denied both SSI and SSID was scary. So we decided to go with the SSI. Its been a nightmare since then. We have been getting reviews about every 2-5 years. The first couple of reviews were in short period of time, until I guess they finally figured out that her condition was not one that has a cure or that it would get better. After that, the reviews happened more far apart.


Two years ago I got a letter that said that I failed to report income and they said I owed $1,800. I explained in the interview that I am self employed and my income changed from month to month and that I thought that they basically would use my tax return to calculate my monthly income. I assumed that they were correct and did not dispute the charge. In my recent interview I was asked if I was paying rent and I told them that about 2 years ago I stopped paying rent. The house belongs to my father in law and he has been paying it. My financial situation has not permitted me to pay rent. My yearly income is between $12,000-$15,000 yearly and we are getting food stamps.


I don't know how they are expecting for me to pay all the utilities, car insurance, gas money, I pay the property tax $1,600 per year and home insurance $1,000 year, household supplies, pay for food (food stamp is not enough for the whole month) and what ever other expense comes my way. Yes my father in law pays the mortgage, but I pay for the house upkeep, repairs, just put a new air conditioning unit, deductible for the roof repair and all the maintenance the house requires.


I did not mention I stopped paying rent and told Social security on my last interview. Now they are charging me $2,300 on top of the $1,800. Now my wife SSI is down from $700 per month to $220. They are deducting about $80 from the SSI to payoff the money owed. I am trying to figure out, How can someone making less than $15,000 yearly can get so little of SSI? Can my wife get permanent Social Security? I don't understand the whole work credit thing and she has not work since then for obvious reasons. Social security doesn't know I pay for the Property tax, home insurance and I cover all the house expenses. They only know that I no longer paying rent. Any legal advice would be greatly appreciated it. It is very difficult to get a full time job, when my wife depends on me constantly on a daily basis. Right now dealing with a son that just recently has been diagnose with Schizophrenia, my wife is very ill and a daughter depends also on me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't have money on my bank accounts, I own a very old minivan 2003 Caravan that's not even worth $2,000 and I am in credit card debt to cover all the extra expenses. I recently applied for a work from home job at my brothers company and I did not get it. Its not like I am making a lot of money and demanding social security and food stamps. I am dealing with an ill wife and now a sick son and responsible for my daughter.

 

[doucar]

The procedure for appealing the latest decision should have been included in the determination letter. I haven't done one of these for almost 20 years since I left Legal Aid, so I hesitate to say anything more as it could have changed. Try contacting your local legal aid office to see if your wife would qualify for their services or a referral to a local social security attorney who may represent you for a reduced fee.

 

[LdiJ]

I am trying to make sense of what I can do and if a someone can help me with this matter. My wife became ill about 10 years ago and when she got to the point where she could not longer work, we decided to apply for Social Security. She has multiple debilitating conditions which have gotten worst. She has been diagnosed with Fibromialgia, Disc Degenerative disease, Short term memory, Hypoglycemic, Arthritis, Hemophilia and I don't remember the rest. She has been very ill since her early 30's. Recently she cannot walk for long period of time, because she gets muscle fatigue. She was using a walker and now has a foldable motorized wheel chair.


When it all started and she was ill, but not as severe as now.... After submitting the original Social security claim... we were denied. We decided to go to a lawyer to work on it for us. The lawyer explained to us that we had two choice after looking at her case. He explained she was short on work credit to qualify for social security. He mentioned that they could go to court and try to proof that her illness started before a certain date, but that it would be difficult depending on the type of judge she would get assigned. He said that if they got a judge that was difficult and the case gets denied, she would not get Social Security or SSI. He said we had the choice of applying for SSI and we should get approved quickly.


We thought about it and the idea of not getting a more lenient judge and being denied both SSI and SSID was scary. So we decided to go with the SSI. Its been a nightmare since then. We have been getting reviews about every 2-5 years. The first couple of reviews were in short period of time, until I guess they finally figured out that her condition was not one that has a cure or that it would get better. After that, the reviews happened more far apart.


Two years ago I got a letter that said that I failed to report income and they said I owed $1,800. I explained in the interview that I am self employed and my income changed from month to month and that I thought that they basically would use my tax return to calculate my monthly income. I assumed that they were correct and did not dispute the charge. In my recent interview I was asked if I was paying rent and I told them that about 2 years ago I stopped paying rent. The house belongs to my father in law and he has been paying it. My financial situation has not permitted me to pay rent. My yearly income is between $12,000-$15,000 yearly and we are getting food stamps.


I don't know how they are expecting for me to pay all the utilities, car insurance, gas money, I pay the property tax $1,600 per year and home insurance $1,000 year, household supplies, pay for food (food stamp is not enough for the whole month) and what ever other expense comes my way. Yes my father in law pays the mortgage, but I pay for the house upkeep, repairs, just put a new air conditioning unit, deductible for the roof repair and all the maintenance the house requires.


I did not mention I stopped paying rent and told Social security on my last interview. Now they are charging me $2,300 on top of the $1,800. Now my wife SSI is down from $700 per month to $220. They are deducting about $80 from the SSI to payoff the money owed. I am trying to figure out, How can someone making less than $15,000 yearly can get so little of SSI? Can my wife get permanent Social Security? I don't understand the whole work credit thing and she has not work since then for obvious reasons. Social security doesn't know I pay for the Property tax, home insurance and I cover all the house expenses. They only know that I no longer paying rent. Any legal advice would be greatly appreciated it. It is very difficult to get a full time job, when my wife depends on me constantly on a daily basis. Right now dealing with a son that just recently has been diagnose with Schizophrenia, my wife is very ill and a daughter depends also on me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't have money on my bank accounts, I own a very old minivan 2003 Caravan that's not even worth $2,000 and I am in credit card debt to cover all the extra expenses. I recently applied for a work from home job at my brothers company and I did not get it. Its not like I am making a lot of money and demanding social security and food stamps. I am dealing with an ill wife and now a sick son and responsible for my daughter.

SSI is a needs based program. SSDI is a program that you qualify for if you have earned at least 40 credits. You get one credit for each quarter of a year that you have worked.

If you have free housing, you get less SSDI. Since it is not your house, I believe that you should get credit for paying property taxes, homeowner's insurance and repairs etc. as rent, but you should confirm that with an attorney that specializes in SSI and SSDI.

 

[Janke]

I am not a lawyer but I do have 28 years experience as an SSI Claims Representative.

SSI considers free food and shelter to be a form of unearned in-kind income and it reduces the amount SSI can pay. Acronym ISM. It can be very complicated.

Although it is rarely considered, payment of property taxes and homeowner's insurance can be considered a "rent like" payment and might reduce the amount of countable in-kind income. But $1600 plus $1000 may not be enough to offset the value of free rent. How much rent would the father charge to a stranger? How much did he used to charge you and your wife? How many people are in the house? Those details matter, but I am guessing that $2600 annually is not enough to offset the market value of the rent.

28. Rent
Rent is a consideration which consists of cash only and which is due to the landlord or his/her authorized agent under a rental agreement. In addition, an individual's payment of the landlord's mortgage, rent (as in sublease situations), or real property taxes for the dwelling in which the individual lives constitutes rent even if the individual pays the vendor directly rather than the landlord or his/her agent.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500835020

It is true that SSI would consider your business profit on your tax return as your income for a specific year. But SSI payments are not made in arrears. So if you give SSI an estimate of your income for 2019. Then, by 4/15/2020, you filed the tax return and confirmed how much your income actually was. If your estimate for 2019 was too low, your wife was overpaid. If your estimate was too high, she is underpaid. You have to make good guesses about self-employment income to be paid correctly on SSI. Rarely does anyone estimate a totally correct number. And you don't know what it is until the year is over and she was paid wrong all year, either too much or too little. Self-employment income is a difficult thing to get right in advance.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500820210


I suggest filing a request for waiver of both overpayments. In a waiver request, SSI does consider many things. Did you ever read all the material SSI sent you? It is full of important information about how SSI is computed and what her responsibilities are. Here is a link to the chapter. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0502260000


A separate form should be completed for each overpayment notice since there are two reasons for the overpayment. If the waiver request is denied, it can be appealed and she can even appear before an Administrative Law Judge at some point down the road and hope that the judge waives the overpayment. Yes, alot of paperwork and bureaucratic procedures. Can take months and months. She may not win. But while you are appealing, the overpayment recovery is suspended.

It actually might make more sense if you and your wife pay the market value of rent to her father and then he uses that money to pay the taxes and insurance and repairs and maintenance. Much simpler for SSI. You can make a new agreement with a new effective date, like March 1, 2021. That would eliminate the ongoing reduction for free rent. And yes, forms and proof may be required. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500835120

Are you children adults or minors? Has the schizophrenic son applied for SSI or SSDI if he is not working? He should and he should appeal if denied. Does he live with you? The free rent issue would apply to him as well, if he is in the house.

Your wife's limited work history cannot be changed now. If she went over five years without working and then became disabled, she cannot get SSDI. At all. She can still get Social Security retirement at age 62. If you were deceased, she could get widow's benefits at age 60 or disabled widow's benefits at age 50.


Does your county welfare office or state have a chore worker program, like In Home Supportive Services? Can you be paid some money for the care you provide? Money paid to you as an IHSS worker for your spouse is not considered deemable to her like your other job's income is. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0501320175

Also, keep copies of every form she completes and even a log of who she speaks with and what they tell her.