Standing outside my apartment

[acmb05]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee. Ok so we moved into an apartment after the floods here ( had no choice house is a total loss) Anyway apparently they had some problems here in the past and they put up "no loitering signs" So a few weeks ago the manager was arrested for beating his girlfriend and the cops were called by a resident here. Ever since that happened the manager has told the police that he wants the loitering laws enforced.

Now last night I am out by my car (just got home) and a neighbor walks up and starts talking to me and we have a smoke while we stand on the sidewalk in front of my car and talk. Police drives through and see's us and stops and tells us that there is no loitering and that we need to go inside. I tell him we are but I just pulled up and I am having a smoke because I do not smoke in my apartment. He asks me what apartment I am in and I point to my dor (it was in sight from where we were standing) Then asks me what car is mine and I say the one I am leaning against right now. He actually checked to hood to see if it was warm. Then asks if we have any weapons and can he look in my car. I told him no on both counts. He shined is flashlight into my car and he got a little pissy with me and said I had to go inside or he would issue me a ticket for loitering. It's like being on house arrest.

1. So my question is two parts, Can I really be ticketed for loitering in front of my own apartment where I live?

2. Did the officer really have a right to shine his flashlight into my car and look at the insides?

For the record I have not drank since 1996 or done any drugs since 1985 when I joined the military. So really I had nothing to worry about, it just annoyed me that they can do this in front of the place I live and pay rent.

 

[Zigner]

1. So my question is two parts, Can I really be ticketed for loitering in front of my own apartment where I live?

Yes

2. Did the officer really have a right to shine his flashlight into my car and look at the insides?

Yes .

 

[acmb05]

Yes



Yes .

Thanks zigner. I kinda thought I could but it just don't seem right. I could see if we were out there drinking and/or being loud but we were just standing in front of my car smoking and talking normally. The officer never saw me get out of my car or even sitting in it. I was outside a good 3 minutes before he pulled in.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I didn't find any loitering state statute, but maybe one of these might work:

Disorderly conduct.

(a) A person commits an offense who, in a public place and with intent to cause public annoyance or alarm:

(1) Engages in fighting or in violent or threatening behavior;

(2) Refuses to obey an official order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, hazard or other emergency; or

(3) Creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act that serves no legitimate purpose.

(b) A person also violates this section who makes unreasonable noise that prevents others from carrying on lawful activities.

(c) A violation of this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

Criminal trespass.

(a) A person commits criminal trespass if the person enters or remains on property, or any portion of property, without the consent of the owner. Consent may be inferred in the case of property that is used for commercial activity available to the general public or in the case of other property when the owner has communicated the owner's intent that the property be open to the general public.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) A person entered or remained on property that the person reasonably believed to be property for which the owner's consent to enter had been granted;

(2) The person's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property; and

(3) The person immediately left the property upon request.

(c) The defenses to prosecution set out in subsection (b) shall not be applicable to a person violating this section if the property owner posts the property with signs that are visible at all major points of ingress to the property being posted and the signs are reasonably likely to come to the attention of a person entering the property.

(d) For purposes of this section, “enter” means intrusion of the entire body.

(e) Entering or remaining on railroad or utility right-of-way property by an adjoining landowner for usual and customary activities of the type defined in §§ 1-3-105(2)(A)(i) and (ii), (B) and (C) and 43-1-113(a), (b)(1)(A) and (B), (b)(2) and (b)(3) shall not be considered trespass under this section. This subsection (e) shall not apply if the railroad or utility right-of-way owner, by a personal communication or posting at the site by someone with either actual authority or apparent authority to act for the railroad or utility right-of-way owner, has communicated to the adjoining landowner that the activity is not permitted.

(f) Criminal trespass is a Class C misdemeanor.
[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 2005, ch. 297, §§ 1-3; 2009, ch. 510, § 1.]

There may be local ordinances to consider as well.

 

[StevenJ_420Law]

Hes a bully.

Great job on handling it.

 

[BOR]

Loitering in front of your OWN apartment. Challenge it, that is absolutely legally egregious.

IF the 1st AM pvovides a right to assemble in a non home area, it
sure can provide an argument to freedom of movement/locomotion.

 

[justalayman]

was there a curfew in place due to the natural disaster?

 

[BOR]

was there a curfew in place due to the natural disaster?

Even if there were, one is permitted to be ON thier property. It would be stretch for the law to say the sidewalk was not the so called curtilage of an apartment as the lawn/fence area of a home would be.

 

[Zigner]

Folks, you are diverging from the question.

OP asked if he COULD be ticketed. The answer is YES.
OP asked if the cop could shine his light in to the car. The answer is YES.

 

[acmb05]

was there a curfew in place due to the natural disaster?

No they don't have a curfew in place in the area I am in now. It's been a couple months since the floods.

 

[BOR]

No they don't have a curfew in place in the area I am in now. It's been a couple months since the floods.

You asked if you could be ticketed for it, right, the presumption is, without asking you, can it be done Constitutionally, not can it be done NON constitutionally.


IMO, NO, it is an UNconstitutional charge if effected.

 

[justalayman]

No they don't have a curfew in place in the area I am in now. It's been a couple months since the floods.

then that obviously removes any possibility due to that.

so, as Zigner stated, yes, they can write a ticket. Depending what it was for, it would likely be disputable.

as to the flashlight; yep, a cop is allowed to look at anything within site without a warrant, even if a flashlight is need to illuminate the area.

 

[Zigner]

You asked if you could be ticketed for it, right, the presumption is, without asking you, can it be done Constitutionally, not can it be done NON constitutionally.


IMO, NO, it is an UNconstitutional charge if effected.

Please feel free to make a case for the unconstitutionality of issuing a ticket for loitering

 

[acmb05]

Ok I have looked and apparently there is no local ordinance against it. Now with that being said and I was just standing outside talking and was told to go inside because of a loitering law that does not exist I would assume I would be charged with something else such as disobeying an officer or some nonsense like that.

I have all respect in the world for Law enforcement people but really, I would think they would try to enforce something like this with people outside drinking or a group of teens hanging around doing nothing but to have two grown people made to go inside for no reason is rediculous.

 

[xylene]

Loitering in front of your OWN apartment. Challenge it, that is absolutely legally egregious.

Apparently you haven't been in too many cities with projects and / or places where low income people live.

Egregious or not, it is loitering, even in front of "your own place"

And yes, the cop was a bully