Sticking to the rules

[mrsjohnboy]

When we divorced, my ex agreed to 1 week visitation at Christmas. He's now basically insisting on having our child for 10 days, so she can spend more time with his step kids. He hasn't said anything about HIM wanting more time with her...

We have been able to compromise on things in the past, but he's not following the papers on medical bill payments, and now he keeps trying to bend the rules on visitation. Any advice on making him stick to what we agreed on? If he doesn't bring her home after 7 days, do I have any legal recourse? After all, wouldn't that put him in contempt?

(We were divorced in Louisiana, and I have moved to Florida. All of THAT is in our papers, too, since the move occurred right after the divorce.)

TIA

 

[smh33]

People and thier lives,priorities change. If ex wants more time, this should make you happy considering all posting here an ex that cares less. This is depending on your specific issue, of which here are not all the facts.
The bills have nothing to do with visitation. If you can not afford to buy the child a toy, or child must take lunch to school instead of buy like everyone else...why should your time with child be dictated by such? No matter why he has not payed to your satisfaction...time, visits not a part of that.
Perhaps you could compromise things out...if not ok w/ u because disrupts your holidays...maybe split them up...or ex gets child earlier or gets again sooner after new year? If it does not disrupt your holidays, then why should you say no?
I understand the order but, that is a guideline......why should you not rejoice that ex is not happy with the limited visits...why should any CP not expect that an NCP may ask for more than the standard visitation and the bottom line is...how do you the CP explain to a judge that you denied extra visitation...better have a good reason ...more than just 'not what order said'.
As far as ex stating to you personal desire for more time....are you serious? Do you state feelings to your ex...if ex says such, and you say no...how much smaller does ex feel then? To say that to you would be handing you power to hurt and a parent's right to see/visit/have a relationship with thier child is not judged by how one verbalizes that desire. If only to be with stepsiblings, well thats great...atleast ex is thinking about enviroment,wanting child to feel comfortable,belong when there. It is a reasonable request...it is hard for anyone,much less child to develop relations with another in a day or 2 every other week...maybe he just sees it as an opportunity with school holiday and all to get a bond formed so not so awkward when child shows up for short visit.
Not blasting you, know it is hard when you have them most of time, hard to give up any time, especially around holidays...maybe you can come up with something that will work for both of you & the child...if not now, maybe Easter give him extra days or invite the step siblings to your house for a day...yes,know that may be reaching.
For record, yes if he does not return child as order states, it is contempt. Do not know if police would even act on such since no danger but, you would be able to file motion of contempt, with documentation to support such. Again, my caution here is...standing infront of the judge who asks you what was the problem with extra visit time if ex wanted it........you may have good reasons, don't know but...good luck anyway.

 

[mrsjohnboy]

More info

There are lots of things that I didn't mention in the posting. A lot of background issues.

For example, my 5 year old came home telling stories about how her stepsister knocked her off the bed, threw her down in the closet, etc. SO WHAT if ex wants her to spend more time with kids that treat her like that?

Another thing...my ex called CPS on me, UNFOUNDED CHARGES, and has made our lives miserable as a result.

The mention of not paying his bills was an aside. I'm not using that as an excuse for him not seeing her. It's a totally separate issue, except for the fact that it shows he's not interested in following the court-ordered guidelines, unless it benefits HIM.

 

[LegalBeagle]

If the court order clearly states 7 days and he fails to return the child before day 8, then he is in contempt of the court order. What can you do about it? Your first stop is the LA police (which is where I assume him to be) and ask them to step in. Most of the time they will refuse unless you insist AND the court order specifies ACTUAL dates. If it just says 7 days, then they will not do anything. You will just have to live with it, document and then bring it up at the next court hearing when you have more stuff to discuss.

 

[smh33]

I understand that every case different & more to cases than what can be posted...I was addressing only info of post.

Kids are kids & my child's best buddies beat up on him at times....siblings is very common. Just becareful basing too much or forming solid opinion based only on child's word.

CPS..you must fight all else separately. Are ways to battle false accusations...make law work for you, don't make laws and apply yourself.
Regardless...if you have no real reason for dening extra time other than anger or just want to say no...you only help yourself by saying yes. You will look far better in front of the judge if you show ex's bad behavior and even while enduring you remained fair, co operative and willing to allow other parent relation. See kinda what I mean.....you show judge you put yourself above letting ex pull you down. Just a suggestion, only you can decide...Good Luck

 

[deefran]

I understand that every case different & more to cases than what can be posted...I was addressing only info of post.

Kids are kids & my child's best buddies beat up on him at times....siblings is very common. Just becareful basing too much or forming solid opinion based only on child's word.

CPS..you must fight all else separately. Are ways to battle false accusations...make law work for you, don't make laws and apply yourself.
Regardless...if you have no real reason for dening extra time other than anger or just want to say no...you only help yourself by saying yes. You will look far better in front of the judge if you show ex's bad behavior and even while enduring you remained fair, co operative and willing to allow other parent relation. See kinda what I mean.....you show judge you put yourself above letting ex pull you down. Just a suggestion, only you can decide...Good Luck

Just curious SMH, in a reply to another poster you told him/her not to let CP get away with demanding NO TIME with child because it leads to a control issue. How is this any different? If the NCP wants MORE time with their child, they should petition the courts for it, not demand more from the CP on a whim.
Mrs. Johnboy, Follow the court ordered visitation to the letter, it's what was ordered. Yes, you can let your ex have your child for more time, only remember SMH's warning, once a demand is met without oppostion there may be more. Isn't demands of child's time the whole reason there was a custody and visitation SCHEDULE set in place?

 

[smh33]

I really do not mean to sound like a smarta_ _ but...as many times as everyone posts everything in custody is subjective to the specific facts of each case, own it's own...why would you are you asking me about my 2 different replies to 2 different posts?

Disappointed to read your flippant remark about NCPs petioning court,etc...from your other posts would have expected more???I can tell you exactly what my judge would say to you about that statement and I do not believe you would enjoy. My,my a big complaint posted is NCPs lack of involvment..are you advising when finally an NCP that wants involvment CP should deny simply because not named in custody order which contains the 'guidelines' of the visitation schedule. I have seen posted often and everyone I know, common following visitation 'guidelines' or visits can be other times as specified & agreed on by both parties. The law/courts do not support your opinion, actually frown on. Plenty of rulings..promote relation with other parent. Open exchange w/in reason benefit of both parties & if promotes compromise between the parents.. I question your understanding of visitation.
The purpose of establishing custody/schedules...if you do not know & feel supports above opinion, I suggest worthy of a trip to your local family court & ask a judge.....


(SMH WARNING), etc... You know my replies are sincere and based on experiance&figure any reply better than 0. I do not appreciate you taking my replies out of context. I am so angry, I do not know what to say....

 

[soniasaini]

I completely agree with smh33. If you don't lose anything (like big plans you made), then let your child have the extra time with Dad. You can make it seem to him like it is a BIG compromise on your part, but really that is just to support your ego. Unless your child doesn't want to spend 3 extra days with Dad, you are (not to criticize) being a little petty.

Someday you may want or need to be with your child during his "specified" visitation. You can at least state that you want to cooperate to make the best environment for the child and that you would appreciate he do the same for you if necessary in the future. The pranks he has pulled in the past you should address separately. I think he was likely wrong to have done them. Take the higher ground here, but let him know that you doing so.

Opinion Only.

 

[missjasmine]

From my past experience it's best for both parties to stick to the court-orders. Nothing more, nothing less. Once one party gives in to the other party's demand it will keep happening until finally all hell breaks loose. Unfortunately, it seems like there's always one person who's uncooperative and that is the person who screws things up for everyone, including the child. What I mean by being "uncooperative" is by making demands on the other person while not following court orders imposed on him/her. As long as you stick to the court order you will be fine. If the other person wants more visitation time, they can petition the court.

 

[smh33]

We have said all is specific to each case. The key is..asking to see your child an extra day,etc...is not a demand though a parent may present it in that way. There are very simple ways to set boundaries to avoid things becoming out of hand. If you should ever be in court again...to do these things will only look better for you.

 

[mrsjohnboy]

What I'm hearing seems to be...let him do what he wants? He is constantly trying to TAKE more than is in the papers, but he is absolutely not willing to GIVE more. In fact, he's not willing to "give" what is court ordered! I have made exceptions for him on his visitation, and the more I do, the more he tries to demand. Honestly, if he really cared about her, things would have been a lot different. I won't go into all that, but there have been several instances where his actions speak louder than his words of love to her. (Leaving his wife, who was in labor, so he could go call his girlfriend is just one example of it.) My whole life centers around taking care of my children, and I have a very difficult time dealing with the fact that he seems to take and take and take.

 

[smh33]

I do not think anyone says let him do as he wants.

I will say this...and let me stress it is dependent on the situation/case....custody/visitation orders are more for the protection of the NCP's rights than the CP..next is the child.
We as Americans have rights,law cannot tell us how to live,work,what religion or how to raise our children. Orders are not punishment...every parent has the right to visitation/access before they ever enter a court room....the courts and the order only establish how everyone's rights will be protected and guaranteed. The order spells out the NCP rights...it is a guideline. Does your order say anything about visitation..or whereas both parties agree....if by court and no issues(abuse,etc) I am thinking it probably does. The order is the min....by law..the NCP has a right..the same as CP...the only way to guarantee both parents are not denied the right to access child is.....to establish an amount of time,guaranteed,protected.....this is the only way gov. can ensure and protect parental rights without stepping over the boundaries of interference with privacy,family,etc......The 'authorities' on children have said structure,stabilty and consistancy are best interest of child.
This is why we have our orders..courts 1st job=child..schedule guarantees a min standard of structure,etc for child w/out overstepping boundaries of/in family/privacy. The schedule which is a guideline really..guarantees 2nd parent's rights to access of child/relation and that on consistant basis...meaning cp can't go 3 months w/o letting other parent visit.
Frankly, ex gave you reason (step kids)...doesn't have too at all..needs no reason to ask for extra time and it is not your place to judge if reasons deserve the time. Walk in the other shoes.
I do not know what you mean that ex won't give, explain if you like.....2 wrongs do not make a right.
If there is no reason to say no to extra time such as you have plans already,etc....you should not....your child has rights also and one is to have relation with other parent w/o your interference or govern. I always suggest if you question what you are doing.....imagine a courtroom,you standing before a judge that asks you...why did you make this or that choice?

What would you say? If you think the judge and the law will back your choice, fine......if you were still married,is this what you would choose....if it all reversed,would I want ex to make these choices about me?
If you feel you are getting taken advantage of with allowing extra time it is very easy to set some limitations & have added to your agreement such as asking for the change so many days in advance,if involves Holidays notice time more,etc...it still leaves you, the cp with same control and no power.
It is hard for all and you may feel you do all the work & why on top do you have to bend any for other that you feel does none of work. My ex left in middle of labor to go home & shower..and I mean middle as in 10 cent.,get ready to push....next A.M. picked us up,drove us home & within20 mins left for work(he had the week off,work called shorthanded & he agreed to pick up slack & we didn't need the $)so you are not alone. He is an a_ _ but all of that is with me, I do not view as less caring of child and many things ex's do may look like an example of not caring for child but is probably more about the other parent & lets face it...the child is the only way to affect other parent thus they are many times used as tools/weapons. I have found in my case..as long as I kept acknowledging every little thing,judging ex,motives,etc...the battle raged. As I began to ignore small, trivial things,etc...things did calm down. It is not as much fun if they(cp or ncp) can not get you mad,yelling,woried,etc....
I hope you can work it all out..only you know all the issues/facts. It is tough, I would wish it on no one.

 

[deefran]

SMH, I am sorry if you took my reply as an attack against your response. I am merely saying that the mother is not denying her ex his rights to visitation. If it clearly states that he is to have 7 days with their child, that is all she has to let him have. Agree that all situations are different, but the reason there is a visitation agreement is to allow EACH parent their time with the child. By him having the child 10 days instead of the agreed upon/ and court ordered 7 he is cutting into her time with their child. I am also not saying that she should not let him have the child for the extra 3 days, but it should be done at her discretion, because he may try to cut into her more of her time with the child. I also agree that it is up to BOTH parents to promote the relationship and well-being of the child for the other parent, but sadly, that is not always the case. Following the court ordered 7 days and not allowing him the extra 3 will not hurt her in court. If her ex wanted more visitation time with the child he will have to petition the courts as everyone else has to do. The reason there is divorce is because the partners can not agree on many issues, hence the reason for divorce/custody/visitation agreements drawn up by the courts.
I have seen many of your helpful responses to many posters on this site, and I was just phrasing how you stated to one poster that if he/she gives in to demands made by ex, that the control issue factors in. That is true in many cases, and that is why court ordered custody/visitation agreements are needed and should be heeded.

 

[smh33]

Deefran, I do not feel attacked, insulted would be more like it. Please read what you asked about the first reply....I told an NCP to not allow CP to rule ,I am asuming ..no visit other than order. This of course I do not know since you neglected to give any other info than the one statement. Here I am telling the CP if no good reason to deny extra, should not...the difference here?
You brought the issue of doing no more than exactly what order states & advised this poster to do such,does not need reason to say no & it will not work against parent if in court. I did not know you lived next door to poster,knowing all info & who case's judge is,how judge usually sides in custody issue. Then your next post you return to the actual issue of the 3 days.

The NCP rarely is position to exert any control over the CP thus it is more common to see the CP doing so by doing things as you advised,only stick to order...

If you are suggesting any CP stand in court and argue justified to not grant 3 days extra to an NCP because it cuts into their time..............excuse me...Ncp averages maybe 118 ngts a year, God forbid the CP with the other 247 ngts be asked to give up 3..............TO THE OTHER PARENT. A CP's discretion to act in the best interest of the child,not thier emotion or opinion as to worthiness of NCP's reasons. You say up to both to promote other parent relation but sadly not case...gee reread this thread and your own advice...I wonder why not the case?
Please research the many,many,many U.S. Supreme rulings regarding ...child's best is first consideration of court....law favors both parents relation,promotion of,co op between parents and to keep the adult personal issues out of decisions to child,etc.....If CP, consistantly refuses all requests of extra time & has no reason & the NCP wants.....it does not look good to the court if one cannot show how allowing would be a harm to child. It is simple...he should share Christmas day and if nothing planned, she should allow him the extra days...they both created this child.

My replies are specific to the post and I have explained the absurdity of comparing. I have been in this battle years now,unfortunatley quite unfriendly & we average 2 to 3 court hearings a year,more on some because my ex is such a petty a_ _. It is between us & I do not exert any power over his life or deny his child to him,tho he does not extend this respect to me always...know what, doesn't matter..I have to think about my child and that is his father. I have no right to tell him anything until it involves harm. I post based on how it has worked for me,what I've seen,mistakes I have made so no I do not appreciate snide comments in reference to replies that make 'light' of issues. You are posting about people's children and my point of consent is a very valid one, making mistakes in this issue can cost one dearly. What I have learned has cost me in pain,sufferring,etc,,,like many here. I also believe in that reply(again no info) I was stating to the parent who was considering making some quota for the other...if you expect of them,you must also abide.
I am over it but,I do think you should understand why I was bothered. You cannot guarentee anyone how thier case while be decided by the court,regardless of the law.

 

[haiku]

it is always good to have specific visitation papers. that way if you are getting along and deviate from the set visitation schedule, you always have the legal visitation to fall back on if things get ugly.

just remember though whether you are cp or ncp, if you are rigid, and unyielding as to times and weekend switching, extra or less days etc... The one time you may need a favor, it may not be granted to you, and the only real loser is the kids.

If the poster doesnt want to give the 3 extra days thats her legal right per her papers. it has nothing to do with his non payemnt of things or even her fear of the skids hurting her kid. he gets 7 days, if he wants more, and she wont yield, he needs to go to court to modify his visits.