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Survey - Technical Question

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paulaas

Guest
What is the name of your state? IA

I am digging in my back yard in order to add a garage. Digging in my area does not require a permit, while construction does. I have a permit for the construction. My neighbor believes I may have encroached upon his property line. The garage location is clearly within the setback requirements and is not contested. The paticular area in question is a 32' long x 5' wide x 2' deep hole. I will place landscape timbers along the length of this hole, at grade, and then backfill the area with dirt and grass. The purpose of this is to prevent erosion of my neighbors yard into my own, or my garage, after the excavation is complete. The reason for this method is to comply with building code requirements concerning wall height and reinforcement.

The issue is that my neighbor thinks I may have encroached, and is upset that any method other than surveying from stakes was used by me to determine property line. He has threatened to "stop" the process, to which I told him as a practical matter, the area would be restored to its previous condition and be "re-grassed", this would be done prior to him obtaining a court date, and that I was paying the expense to prevent HIS yard from eroding into mine. As an aside, I mentioned that if there was to be a survey, I would require that this be a shared cost, in order to determine whether a post placed between our yards in the middle of nowhere was in fact a relic from an earlier survey and used to mark boundary, or whether this post lie on one or the other's property. This is not a big issue, but it has served as the demarcation line for mowing and does seem to be utterly without function except to serve that purpose. (it was present when I bought the house and is not "permanent" nor does it have economic or other value)

Back to the point, I'm wondering: whether the lack of me doing a survey is a prima facie way for him to demand that I cease and desist until a survey is obtained.

I beleive my methodology is sound, and while perhaps not legally determinative, at least is sufficient to cause a reasonable person to come to the same conclusions. I used USGS mapping data from arial photographs that have been overlaid by our county assessor with the plat maps for our county and provided on their website (pretty cool - home page at assess.co.polk.ia.us - gotta do a search to see). I used a large rock and the center of a drainage ditch with small culvert, neither of which have moved by themselves over the last four years, as reference points to the property line to the adjacent neighbor. Since the proximity of the rock to the line was short, the error produced by "pixelizing" the image and converting each pixel into physical space is likely to be small. I then picked a place equidistant from the front and back boundaries of the property and used a nifty laser transit to shoot the refernce point and establish my line. I accounted for the published deviation in the transit. All be damned if this method showed the other structures EXACTLY at their setback requirements (presuming those guys had a method, too), the above-mentioned post exactly in-line, and my proposed location safely at 1' from the line. From this method, I finalized my plan and started digging.

Are their emerging cases or existing law that seek to use digital imagery, GPS data, and other new technologies as legally determinative methods to resolve boundary disputes? If the neighbor requests a survey, can I use my own results to ask the other surveyor to either validate the methodology and/or determine a result using an altnernative method - and then proceed to resolve differences, should any appear, between our two results? I suppose the theoretical question is that, at some point, if there is movement between the method of observation and the observed in a way that cannot resolve to absolute position, which is correct? When in California, if an earthquake moves the boundary stakes, does that seem that "new" real estate has been created by the emergence of the fault? (all technologies will have their quirks)

Thanks for your thoughts...
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
paulaas said:
What is the name of your state? IA

I am digging in my back yard in order to add a garage. Digging in my area does not require a permit, while construction does. I have a permit for the construction. My neighbor believes I may have encroached upon his property line. The garage location is clearly within the setback requirements and is not contested. The paticular area in question is a 32' long x 5' wide x 2' deep hole. I will place landscape timbers along the length of this hole, at grade, and then backfill the area with dirt and grass. The purpose of this is to prevent erosion of my neighbors yard into my own, or my garage, after the excavation is complete. The reason for this method is to comply with building code requirements concerning wall height and reinforcement.

The issue is that my neighbor thinks I may have encroached, and is upset that any method other than surveying from stakes was used by me to determine property line. He has threatened to "stop" the process, to which I told him as a practical matter, the area would be restored to its previous condition and be "re-grassed", this would be done prior to him obtaining a court date, and that I was paying the expense to prevent HIS yard from eroding into mine. As an aside, I mentioned that if there was to be a survey, I would require that this be a shared cost, in order to determine whether a post placed between our yards in the middle of nowhere was in fact a relic from an earlier survey and used to mark boundary, or whether this post lie on one or the other's property. This is not a big issue, but it has served as the demarcation line for mowing and does seem to be utterly without function except to serve that purpose. (it was present when I bought the house and is not "permanent" nor does it have economic or other value)

Back to the point, I'm wondering: whether the lack of me doing a survey is a prima facie way for him to demand that I cease and desist until a survey is obtained.

I beleive my methodology is sound, and while perhaps not legally determinative, at least is sufficient to cause a reasonable person to come to the same conclusions. I used USGS mapping data from arial photographs that have been overlaid by our county assessor with the plat maps for our county and provided on their website (pretty cool - home page at assess.co.polk.ia.us - gotta do a search to see). I used a large rock and the center of a drainage ditch with small culvert, neither of which have moved by themselves over the last four years, as reference points to the property line to the adjacent neighbor. Since the proximity of the rock to the line was short, the error produced by "pixelizing" the image and converting each pixel into physical space is likely to be small. I then picked a place equidistant from the front and back boundaries of the property and used a nifty laser transit to shoot the refernce point and establish my line. I accounted for the published deviation in the transit. All be damned if this method showed the other structures EXACTLY at their setback requirements (presuming those guys had a method, too), the above-mentioned post exactly in-line, and my proposed location safely at 1' from the line. From this method, I finalized my plan and started digging.

Are their emerging cases or existing law that seek to use digital imagery, GPS data, and other new technologies as legally determinative methods to resolve boundary disputes? If the neighbor requests a survey, can I use my own results to ask the other surveyor to either validate the methodology and/or determine a result using an altnernative method - and then proceed to resolve differences, should any appear, between our two results? I suppose the theoretical question is that, at some point, if there is movement between the method of observation and the observed in a way that cannot resolve to absolute position, which is correct? When in California, if an earthquake moves the boundary stakes, does that seem that "new" real estate has been created by the emergence of the fault? (all technologies will have their quirks)

Thanks for your thoughts...
**A: are you a licensed surveyor in the state of IA? If not, hire one to complete a boundary survey..
 
Last edited:
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paulaas

Guest
In Iowa, a survey is required by a licensed professional to have determinative effect and if permanent boundary markers are to be placed as the result of a "survey". A license is also required if one is doing this work for another party. I am not trying to establish the boundary per se, but that a location is within the boundary on my own property. I'm not trying to quibble with your advice, and certainly would pay for a survey if I believed a survey to be required by law based on what I am doing. I guess my read is that it is not required, although I undertand that if my neighbor wants to raise an issue, it may eventually be required as a matter of proof, not the law itself.

I can defend a small claim for less money than paying for a survey. If the court requires a survey, then so be it. I'm just a homeowner who beleives that the power of the law should be accessible to the people. Since I did my diligence to determine that a survey is not required by law, I was looking for advice on how to defend rather than paying for a survey.

thanks
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
paulaas said:
In Iowa, a survey is required by a licensed professional to have determinative effect and if permanent boundary markers are to be placed as the result of a "survey". A license is also required if one is doing this work for another party. I am not trying to establish the boundary per se, but that a location is within the boundary on my own property. I'm not trying to quibble with your advice, and certainly would pay for a survey if I believed a survey to be required by law based on what I am doing. I guess my read is that it is not required, although I undertand that if my neighbor wants to raise an issue, it may eventually be required as a matter of proof, not the law itself.

I can defend a small claim for less money than paying for a survey. If the court requires a survey, then so be it. I'm just a homeowner who beleives that the power of the law should be accessible to the people. Since I did my diligence to determine that a survey is not required by law, I was looking for advice on how to defend rather than paying for a survey.

thanks
**A: you are correct in that a survey is not required by law, but stop playing games and do the right thing.
 
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paulaas

Guest
games? sorry, HG, not trying to play game. I try and think things through first before paying someone else to do it for me.

maybe one day advances in digital imaging and GPS will decrease the number of disputes that occur due to inaccurate surveys and ignorance concerning boundary locations. maybe the use of those technologies will only be considered competent in the hands of a surveyor. i will take your advice as to the current state of affairs and leave questions about the future of technology and the law to a different thread.

great forums - thanks for your time
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Building a structure in the wrong place is a VERY expensive mistake to fix. Easier and wiser to do it RIGHT in the first place. Get a proper survey and avoid possibly having to move the building. Of course, if you don't and you were correct, alls well. But if you were "off" you could be faced with forced removal of the encroaching structure.
 

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