Switching to public defender

[js123]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KY

My 16 year old son is in juvenile detention for probation violation. The rules were 'too hard' to follow. We don't want to pay for private attorneys any more.

Is my understanding correct: we'll be assessed as being able to pay and end up having to pay for the PD anyway?

And also - Are juveniles automatically assigned PDs or do they need to request them?
Do juvenile hearings even go ahead if a juvenile has no attorney? He has a detention hearing tomorrow - does anyone have any idea what will happen if we don't show up with an attorney? Will he be assigned one on the spot?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KY

My 16 year old son is in juvenile detention for probation violation. The rules were 'too hard' to follow. We don't want to pay for private attorneys any more.

Is my understanding correct: we'll be assessed as being able to pay and end up having to pay for the PD anyway?

And also - Are juveniles automatically assigned PDs or do they need to request them?
Do juvenile hearings even go ahead if a juvenile has no attorney? He has a detention hearing tomorrow - does anyone have any idea what will happen if we don't show up with an attorney? Will he be assigned one on the spot?

Thank you for your time.

http://dpa.ky.gov/

And here:
"KBA Task Force on the Provision and Compensation of Conflict Counsel for Indigents -- At its Nov. 18, 2011 meeting, the KBA Board of Governors unanimously adopted a resolution endorsing findings and recommendations that request state leaders to immediately address and improve the system for representation of indigents in conflict cases. To access the news release, click here. To access the resolution and the report of the KBA Task Force on the Provision and Compensation of Conflict Counsel for Indigents, click here."
^^^ from http://www.kybar.org/

 

[js123]

Thank you, I found a phone number for the area.

But he's not an indigent is he? I assume, since we're not?
I'm not 100% sure that our plan is even possible. I've heard this somewhere. I assume that there will be someone available to represent him tomorrow at least, as I understand it the detention hearing has to happen pretty quickly.

 

[Indiana Filer]

Thank you, I found a phone number for the area.

But he's not an indigent is he? I assume, since we're not?
I'm not 100% sure that our plan is even possible. I've heard this somewhere. I assume that there will be someone available to represent him tomorrow at least, as I understand it the detention hearing has to happen pretty quickly.

He will not have to have an attorney at the detention hearing, although, if you can hire one, it would be a good idea.

The detention hearing is solely to determine if there was probable cause for him to be detained. It will not be to find if he did or did not commit the offense, but merely for the juvenile referee/judge to determine probable cause.

 

[js123]

He will not have to have an attorney at the detention hearing, although, if you can hire one, it would be a good idea.

The detention hearing is solely to determine if there was probable cause for him to be detained. It will not be to find if he did or did not commit the offense, but merely for the juvenile referee/judge to determine probable cause.

Yes, we've been to detention hearings before (unfortunately...) I was actually under the impression that all the kids had access to an attorney at them but it's always possible/likely that I'm wrong (we have hired one before for them - so I'm not sure what happens otherwise). And if he doesn't actually have to have one, then, good, fine. He appears to think that he can do what he likes and we'll come along behind him and fix it all up.

 

[sandyclaus]

As a parent who is legally responsible for their child's actions, I'm not sure whether or not you can CHOOSE not to pay for the services of an attorney if you could otherwise afford them. You're not indigent, and the child does live at home, so I don't think he would qualify for free legal services.

The fact that the child thinks he can do what he wants and will try to get away with it speaks as much to your parenting skills as anything else. You don't get to not do your job as a parent and then push off financial responsibility on us taxpayers when you fail to do so.

That's MY thinking anyway. I'm not sure of the legal response here, so I'll just sit back and see what other Seniors might have to say on the matter.

 

[js123]

As a parent who is legally responsible for their child's actions, I'm not sure whether or not you can CHOOSE not to pay for the services of an attorney if you could otherwise afford them. You're not indigent, and the child does live at home, so I don't think he would qualify for free legal services.

The fact that the child thinks he can do what he wants and will try to get away with it speaks as much to your parenting skills as anything else. You don't get to not do your job as a parent and then push off financial responsibility on us taxpayers when you fail to do so.

That's MY thinking anyway. I'm not sure of the legal response here, so I'll just sit back and see what other Seniors might have to say on the matter.

No, I wouldn't expect free. It's my understanding that we would be billed for the PD - but this is simply something I've picked up along the way and don't actually have any legal references for. This is more about not throwing him the attorney lifeline and letting him work it out himself.

Not doing our jobs as parents? Oh please, I don't know what you have in the way of children but one day you might find out that every now and then one comes along who is naturally so immensely bull-headed and stubborn that nothing's going to stop them except for experiencing the hard knocks themselves, they don't understand 'HOT' until they get burned. No matter how hard you try.

 

[mistoffolees]

As a parent who is legally responsible for their child's actions, I'm not sure whether or not you can CHOOSE not to pay for the services of an attorney if you could otherwise afford them. You're not indigent, and the child does live at home, so I don't think he would qualify for free legal services.

The fact that the child thinks he can do what he wants and will try to get away with it speaks as much to your parenting skills as anything else. You don't get to not do your job as a parent and then push off financial responsibility on us taxpayers when you fail to do so.

That's MY thinking anyway. I'm not sure of the legal response here, so I'll just sit back and see what other Seniors might have to say on the matter.

I'm inclined to agree. Especially since OP is making excuses:
"My 16 year old son is in juvenile detention for probation violation. The rules were 'too hard' to follow."

What? Too hard to follow the probation rules? They're setting that kid up for a tough life.

No, I wouldn't expect free. It's my understanding that we would be billed for the PD - but this is simply something I've picked up along the way and don't actually have any legal references for. This is more about not throwing him the attorney lifeline and letting him work it out himself.

You don't expect free? Then why did your first post say that you were tired of paying for private attorneys?

Besides. The kid is 16. Make him get a part time job to pay his own legal expenses. That alone will be part of the growing up that he seriously needs.

Not doing our jobs as parents? Oh please, I don't know what you have in the way of children but one day you might find out that every now and then one comes along who is naturally so immensely bull-headed and stubborn that nothing's going to stop them except for experiencing the hard knocks themselves, they don't understand 'HOT' until they get burned. No matter how hard you try.

That may be true. My older one was very stubborn, as well. But, then I didn't go around telling her that it was OK to violate probation orders because they were 'too hard' to follow.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I'm not sure whether or not you can CHOOSE not to pay for the services of an attorney if you could otherwise afford them.

Generally, nobody is ever forced to pay for legal representation. One always has the choice to represent himself or herself, so Mom and Dad can always tell Junior that he's not getting a lawyer, and to enjoy prison (or juvi detention).

However, since the kid's liberty interest is at stake, the judge may force mom and dad to cough up the money.

 

[stealth2]

I'm inclined to agree. Especially since OP is making excuses:
"My 16 year old son is in juvenile detention for probation violation. The rules were 'too hard' to follow."

What? Too hard to follow the probation rules? They're setting that kid up for a tough life.



You don't expect free? Then why did your first post say that you were tired of paying for private attorneys?

Besides. The kid is 16. Make him get a part time job to pay his own legal expenses. That alone will be part of the growing up that he seriously needs.



That may be true. My older one was very stubborn, as well. But, then I didn't go around telling her that it was OK to violate probation orders because they were 'too hard' to follow.

I suspect OP is being sarcastic, saying they're "too hard to follow" - it's that the kid refused to do so.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I suspect OP is being sarcastic, saying they're "too hard to follow" - it's that the kid refused to do so.

I'm sure that's what OP meant. S/he was merely repeating Junior's excuse.

Also, I don't think js123 is necessarily trying to cage a free attorney, I just think s/he is tired of spending money on attorneys to bail Junior out of trouble, and is ready to let Junior deal with the consequences of not having a private attorney paid for my Mommy and Daddy this time.

Just because you can hire one, does that mean you must hire one? If he's not qualified for a PD, then let him find out what consequences really are.

 

[js123]

Stealth2 and Charlotte are right. I thought the probation rules were really easy to follow. Our problem with the private attorneys we've had is that they're too good...son feels perfectly safe with them. He needs to be thrown out of that comfort zone. Not that PDs aren't also good, but I imagine he won't get the same individual care.
He was given a PD for the detention hearing - maybe it's a county thing for them to have an attorney there? And the judge will assign a PD at our expense if we don't provide one, he said he does have to have one. That's fine, he can do the actual dealing with the PD himself.
Now he's being creatively manipulative with his "you don't want me in here for Christmas".

 

[>Charlotte<]

Well, good for you, js123. Sincerely.

You might have to pay for a lawyer, but you sure as heck don't have to hire Gloria Allred.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[mistoffolees]

Stealth2 and Charlotte are right. I thought the probation rules were really easy to follow. Our problem with the private attorneys we've had is that they're too good...son feels perfectly safe with them. He needs to be thrown out of that comfort zone. Not that PDs aren't also good, but I imagine he won't get the same individual care.
He was given a PD for the detention hearing - maybe it's a county thing for them to have an attorney there? And the judge will assign a PD at our expense if we don't provide one, he said he does have to have one. That's fine, he can do the actual dealing with the PD himself.
Now he's being creatively manipulative with his "you don't want me in here for Christmas".

If it were me, I would get him a good attorney - and then make him get a job to pay it off.

And then he'd be spending some time working at the soup kitchen on Christmas.

And that's after he was thoroughly grounded until he's old and gray.

 

[js123]

Well, good for you, js123. Sincerely.

You might have to pay for a lawyer, but you sure as heck don't have to hire Gloria Allred.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you. This kid's a heartbreaker.
Gloria Allred sounds familiar - Lindsay Lohan?...Oh, he's not as 'bad' as her.

If it were me, I would get him a good attorney - and then make him get a job to pay it off.

The problem with this situation - and feel free to correct me if legally I'm wrong - but it's actually very difficult to force money out of the child when the parents were the ones who were legally responsible for the attorney costs - correct?

Sure you can then limit what you provide the child...but the child now has a job and access to money anyway...Last time we told him, you owe us - and we got a token amount.

As I understand it, we don't have much of a legal leg to stand on there. I agree, the idea makes perfect sense from a parenting perspective (and that should be the way it goes). But difficult to enforce - can't kick him out and next time there's a legal issue we're still responsible for further costs, and the cycle begins again.

I wish it was as simple as 'grounding' him...We've tried many things already. I think it's time he figures out that if you break the rules you might actually go to jail.