termination

[Pastor]

In April 1999 I was given a "3 year call" from the church I am a minister at - this is in writing and in the Church Congregational Meeting minutes. I accepted the call until June 2002. Now they have decided they "don't like me anymore", and "don't think I can do the job anymore", and so they want to fire me. What can I do about this?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor:
In April 1999 I was given a "3 year call" from the church I am a minister at - this is in writing and in the Church Congregational Meeting minutes. I accepted the call until June 2002. Now they have decided they "don't like me anymore", and "don't think I can do the job anymore", and so they want to fire me. What can I do about this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My response:

Sorry Pastor. We don't deal in Eclesiastical law - - or, at least, I don't. There's a little thing called "Separation of Church and State." You'll have to take it up with your Diocese or other religious hierarchy.

IAAL



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By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."

 

[Attorney_Replogle]

Pastor, while it is true that you have a written employment agreement stating you are to have that job until 2002, it is not likely to be of use to you. I am not completely positive about this, but pretty sure. The reason is that since the employer and employee are a protected entity (religious church) the normal rules don't apply. If the state or federal government were to say that the normal rules of employment law applied to a church, then that church would not be able to practice its faith in its day-to-day operations.

Whether the church was choosing to not have you as pastor any longer because of a genuine religious belief or choice, that is the question. Will a court inquire into that? Not very likely at all. After all, under the California (if it is here in that state) and the federal constitution the government can't interfere in church life.

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Mark B. Replogle

 

[lawguy]

Ahh, babylon vs. the church, but I say the law is on the side of babylon...

The separation of church and state doesn't give the church the right to ignore its legal obligations.

1. sure, no court will force the church to keep as the religious leader anyone the church doesn't want to have lead the flock. So, you won't be able to get an injunction prohibiting anyone else from offering communion, or whatever it is you do...

2. but, if the church organization made an enforceable employment contract for a specific period of employment, you have a legitimate claim for what was promised.

basically, like any basketball team, if they promised you three years of work, they can force you to sit on the bench, but they can't get out of paying you for the contract period. of course, this assumes there's no loophole for them to terminate you (or the contract) prior to the end of the three year period.

so, go talk to a real life employment lawyer, they'll usually give a first-time consultation for free. basically, although there are certain exemptions from the discrimination laws for churches, they can't make contracts and break them without rendering unto caesar that which they've promised...

good luck.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lawguy:
Ahh, babylon vs. the church, but I say the law is on the side of babylon...

The separation of church and state doesn't give the church the right to ignore its legal obligations.

1. sure, no court will force the church to keep as the religious leader anyone the church doesn't want to have lead the flock. So, you won't be able to get an injunction prohibiting anyone else from offering communion, or whatever it is you do...

2. but, if the church organization made an enforceable employment contract for a specific period of employment, you have a legitimate claim for what was promised.

basically, like any basketball team, if they promised you three years of work, they can force you to sit on the bench, but they can't get out of paying you for the contract period. of course, this assumes there's no loophole for them to terminate you (or the contract) prior to the end of the three year period.

so, go talk to a real life employment lawyer, they'll usually give a first-time consultation for free. basically, although there are certain exemptions from the discrimination laws for churches, they can't make contracts and break them without rendering unto caesar that which they've promised...

good luck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey Lawguy:

Welcome back !! Good to hear from you again. Why the long absence?

IAAL




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By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."