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The Car

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youngidealist

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
California


My wife randomly wanted a divorce in the middle of December, over what seems to be financial reasons and a sudden onset of severe anxiety. The only problem with our marriage is that it had the same basic frustrations that any other had. There was no violence or verbal abuse, just a few disagreements over major decisions, which I always did my best to compromise on. I went out of my way for her, drove her everywhere because she had a fear of driving, and I wanted to see a marriage councilor to try and work it out but she wouldn't have it.

Now I've accepted the divorce, but I feel manipulated and she wants to just take the car and leave me nothing for it. We are both college students. She needs the car to get to her school, I need the car in case I get a much needed job opportunity that requires it. She's living with her parents right now rent free while I'm considering moving into a living room with some of my close friends as roommates. I don't have the luxury of having financially supportive parents. If she takes a semester off of school to work and attain transportation she can do that and have it not effect her wellbeing by much at all. If I let go of school or a good work opportunity I risk losing everything and potentially becoming homeless.

The car is the only thing that either of us wants from the divorce. It's bluebook value is about $5200. I can show my bank statements of me paying about $5000 of the $8500 it cost us for purchase and about $1000 on repairs only 2 months before we got married. She claims that the arrangement at the time was that she would put money towards rent and that I would put in the major portion of the cost of the car. That was the strategy, but not an agreed upon exchange. I kept records of how much both of us contributed throughout the marriage on a budget where we put our living costs of $1500 each per month into the joint account to live on from the day we moved into the apartment. I lost those notes but the marriage only lasted 6 months and it would be possible to recreate them if necessary. I was able to show that we both paid equally for all rent and living costs up to the month of December, to include the rent she paid during the time we purchased the car.

A friend of hers had loaned us $3500 to help with the purchase of the car and during the month of November I paid him back $1300 without requiring her to match the payment. Also, that and the money I originally used to purchase and repair the car was student loan money which I still have to pay back someday.

Also, when we purchased the car, the dealer said that it would be more paperwork if we put the car in both names right there and she insisted that her name go on it. I trusted her at the time to be fair whatever happened, and I just never got around to putting my name on the title.

I've offered her compromise after compromise in the divorce, suggesting that she take the car but pay me $5100-$3500 over an amount of time that she would find reasonable, but she wouldn't have it. Even if the judge insisted that I get the car, I wouldn't feel right taking it without at least offering $2000 to her because to both of us it's a huge asset that's worth far more than the bluebook value of it.

She also insists that I'm keeping the majority of our other property, but the most valuable items are things which she left and I don't care for. It's more of a burden to me because I don't know if I'll be able to keep it all when I move out. She only left it all because there's no room to store anything at her parents house.

She said she talked to an attorney and that her attorney said that the judge would just decide and still screw over whoever doesn't get the car because the bluebook value is so low and we still owe $2200 to her friend on it. Her friend and I have no problems with each other and I would gladly pay him back if I got the car, but she insists that the fact that he is her friend originally is a significant argument to let her have the car.

Finally, it's probably not significant in a legal sense, but she even had me sell my bicycle while we moved in together because she didn't want it crowding the precious patio that she wanted to relax on. I had originally bought it brand new with accessories for $350, but sold it along with the accessories for $50 because she insisted and because we had a car. Now I have no transportation alternative but the bus system.

My question is, what would the judge likely decide?
 


mistoffolees

Senior Member
You wasted a lot of words to ask a simple question.

Anything purchased during the marriage is marital property. Marital property is typically split 50:50.

Whoever gets the car will have to reimburse the other person for 50% of any marital equity in the car - as well as taking over the loan if there's any debt on the car.

The only exception is if separate money (an inheritance or money owned before the marriage) is used to buy the car. In some states, and under some circumstances, the separate money can be recovered before the remaining property is divided. In your case, you might be able to get more than 50% because it was bought largely with your money before the marriage.

HOWEVER, the car is worth $5,200 in Bluebook. That means you could probably sell it for $3,000. Maybe. Your half is not big enough to be worth fighting about. You'll spend a lot more than $1500 in legal expenses if this becomes adversarial. Better to see if you can work something out with her.

NEEDING the car for work? Not really. If you are offered the job, your offer letter should be enough to get you enough credit to buy a usable car at a used car dealer.
 

youngidealist

Junior Member
The only thing that she will work out with me is her taking the car and that being that.

I also have really bad credit and from my experience getting a letter for a job offer would not be enough at all. I'd give it a try but I'm always turned down for the simplest things for my credit score.

I also don't intend to pay for an attorney. I just want a chance at something fair, even if that only leaves me representing myself before the judge, getting shot down for technical reasons, and moving on.

I'm intending to ask the judge for the car to go to me and for me to pay her my offer of $2000 over a reasonable amount of time. By the fact that such would be more than fair to both of us by the courts standards, does that increase the chances of me getting it?
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
California


My wife randomly wanted a divorce in the middle of December, over what seems to be financial reasons and a sudden onset of severe anxiety. The only problem with our marriage is that it had the same basic frustrations that any other had. There was no violence or verbal abuse, just a few disagreements over major decisions, which I always did my best to compromise on. I went out of my way for her, drove her everywhere because she had a fear of driving, and I wanted to see a marriage councilor to try and work it out but she wouldn't have it.

Now I've accepted the divorce, but I feel manipulated and she wants to just take the car and leave me nothing for it. We are both college students. She needs the car to get to her school, I need the car in case I get a much needed job opportunity that requires it. She's living with her parents right now rent free while I'm considering moving into a living room with some of my close friends as roommates. I don't have the luxury of having financially supportive parents. If she takes a semester off of school to work and attain transportation she can do that and have it not effect her wellbeing by much at all. If I let go of school or a good work opportunity I risk losing everything and potentially becoming homeless.

The car is the only thing that either of us wants from the divorce. It's bluebook value is about $5200. I can show my bank statements of me paying about $5000 of the $8500 it cost us for purchase and about $1000 on repairs only 2 months before we got married. She claims that the arrangement at the time was that she would put money towards rent and that I would put in the major portion of the cost of the car. That was the strategy, but not an agreed upon exchange. I kept records of how much both of us contributed throughout the marriage on a budget where we put our living costs of $1500 each per month into the joint account to live on from the day we moved into the apartment. I lost those notes but the marriage only lasted 6 months and it would be possible to recreate them if necessary. I was able to show that we both paid equally for all rent and living costs up to the month of December, to include the rent she paid during the time we purchased the car.

A friend of hers had loaned us $3500 to help with the purchase of the car and during the month of November I paid him back $1300 without requiring her to match the payment. Also, that and the money I originally used to purchase and repair the car was student loan money which I still have to pay back someday.

Also, when we purchased the car, the dealer said that it would be more paperwork if we put the car in both names right there and she insisted that her name go on it. I trusted her at the time to be fair whatever happened, and I just never got around to putting my name on the title.

I've offered her compromise after compromise in the divorce, suggesting that she take the car but pay me $5100-$3500 over an amount of time that she would find reasonable, but she wouldn't have it. Even if the judge insisted that I get the car, I wouldn't feel right taking it without at least offering $2000 to her because to both of us it's a huge asset that's worth far more than the bluebook value of it.

She also insists that I'm keeping the majority of our other property, but the most valuable items are things which she left and I don't care for. It's more of a burden to me because I don't know if I'll be able to keep it all when I move out. She only left it all because there's no room to store anything at her parents house.

She said she talked to an attorney and that her attorney said that the judge would just decide and still screw over whoever doesn't get the car because the bluebook value is so low and we still owe $2200 to her friend on it. Her friend and I have no problems with each other and I would gladly pay him back if I got the car, but she insists that the fact that he is her friend originally is a significant argument to let her have the car.

Finally, it's probably not significant in a legal sense, but she even had me sell my bicycle while we moved in together because she didn't want it crowding the precious patio that she wanted to relax on. I had originally bought it brand new with accessories for $350, but sold it along with the accessories for $50 because she insisted and because we had a car. Now I have no transportation alternative but the bus system.

My question is, what would the judge likely decide?
The only thing I can tell you for certain that the judge will order, is that whoever keeps the car will be responsible for the balance of the loan from her friend.

I think that the odds are a little in her favor since the car is currently titled to her.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
The only thing that she will work out with me is her taking the car and that being that.

I also have really bad credit and from my experience getting a letter for a job offer would not be enough at all. I'd give it a try but I'm always turned down for the simplest things for my credit score.

I also don't intend to pay for an attorney. I just want a chance at something fair, even if that only leaves me representing myself before the judge, getting shot down for technical reasons, and moving on.

I'm intending to ask the judge for the car to go to me and for me to pay her my offer of $2000 over a reasonable amount of time. By the fact that such would be more than fair to both of us by the courts standards, does that increase the chances of me getting it?
Well, a judge is certainly going to look more kindly on a reasonable offer than an unreasonable one, but that doesn't mean the judge will grant you what you're requesting. And it's not clear that your offer is reasonable.

Bluebook on the car is $5200. It's almost certainly worth less than that. Plus, $2 K is still owed on it (if I'm reading your post properly). If the real value is something like $3 K, and you take out a $2 K debt, the car is worth $1 K - so your half is $500. I really suspect that you're spending a lot of time and money fighting over an insignificant amount.

Wouldn't it be better for you to spend all of that time and energy finding a part time job so you can save some money for a new car?

As for another car, there are car dealers who will sell you a new car almost regardless of how bad your credit is. Granted, they will charge you more than the best deal you're likely to get elsewhere, but if that's the only way to get a car that you need to drive to work, you may have to live with it. Or borrow the money from a friend or family member. Or get someone to co-sign.
 

youngidealist

Junior Member
Expecting anyone close to me to do anything for me without something significant in return is not an option. I have friends who will room with me, that's it. They're in the same financial status as I am and unlike them my family won't take care of me. No co-signing, no loans, no free rent. Zip.

Even if the law sees the car as being valued at $1000, it's worth more than that to both of us. If I could get another car just like it for $1000 I'd care less about the matter and just be happy that she's gone. I've gone to used car dealerships who say they don't care about credit and I've still been turned down for a lease.

I'm also already working on getting a part time job so I can have a roof over my head. Another car will either come from me getting lucky or another 2 years of me being as frugal as possible.

What's it to the judge if I'm offering her more than $500 for the car. The bluebook is wrong about it's worth. We looked everywhere for the cheapest working used vehicle we could get and still had to fork out about $8000 after taxes. Besides, if it's to be treated like it's only worth what it would be worth sold, then shouldn't she actually have to sell it to make that point?
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
I think your best course of action is to stop fighting over the car and try to work together like the team you were. If she is going to school, you borrow it to look for work and transport each other. You may have differences, but I can't see that based on what you've said, the short term issues cannot be worked out like adults. Worry about who gets the car later, when you can both afford the divorce.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Expecting anyone close to me to do anything for me without something significant in return is not an option. I have friends who will room with me, that's it. They're in the same financial status as I am and unlike them my family won't take care of me. No co-signing, no loans, no free rent. Zip.

Even if the law sees the car as being valued at $1000, it's worth more than that to both of us. If I could get another car just like it for $1000 I'd care less about the matter and just be happy that she's gone. I've gone to used car dealerships who say they don't care about credit and I've still been turned down for a lease.

I'm also already working on getting a part time job so I can have a roof over my head. Another car will either come from me getting lucky or another 2 years of me being as frugal as possible.

What's it to the judge if I'm offering her more than $500 for the car. The bluebook is wrong about it's worth. We looked everywhere for the cheapest working used vehicle we could get and still had to fork out about $8000 after taxes. Besides, if it's to be treated like it's only worth what it would be worth sold, then shouldn't she actually have to sell it to make that point?
You wanted advice? You got advice. It's not my fault you didn't like it.

Last advice (non-legal): If you think the cheapest car you can buy is $8 K - and you're still in school without a job, you need to SERIOUSLY downgrade your expectations of life.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
LOL I know people who've bought used cars (not pretty ones, but road-worthy) for <$500. Really. It may be time for you to downgrade your expectations, dude.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Was this car purchased BEFORE you were married and placed in her name only???

If so....it's hers.
Apparently, they bought it before they were married and put her name only on the title. That makes it technically her separate property, so he may not even be able to claim any share of it.

Sounds like he just learned an expensive lesson about gifts.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
LOL I know people who've bought used cars (not pretty ones, but road-worthy) for <$500. Really. It may be time for you to downgrade your expectations, dude.
So have I, although since last years "cash for clunkers" incentive the inventory of those kinds of cars is slim right now. I have clients who are/were small sized used car dealers who got put out of business over that deal, because they couldn't get any inventory to sell.
 

KnownOne

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
California


My wife randomly wanted a divorce in the middle of December, over what seems to be financial reasons and a sudden onset of severe anxiety. The only problem with our marriage is that it had the same basic frustrations that any other had. There was no violence or verbal abuse, just a few disagreements over major decisions, which I always did my best to compromise on. I went out of my way for her, drove her everywhere because she had a fear of driving, and I wanted to see a marriage councilor to try and work it out but she wouldn't have it.

Now I've accepted the divorce, but I feel manipulated and she wants to just take the car and leave me nothing for it. We are both college students. She needs the car to get to her school, I need the car in case I get a much needed job opportunity that requires it. She's living with her parents right now rent free while I'm considering moving into a living room with some of my close friends as roommates. I don't have the luxury of having financially supportive parents. If she takes a semester off of school to work and attain transportation she can do that and have it not effect her wellbeing by much at all. If I let go of school or a good work opportunity I risk losing everything and potentially becoming homeless.

The car is the only thing that either of us wants from the divorce. It's bluebook value is about $5200. I can show my bank statements of me paying about $5000 of the $8500 it cost us for purchase and about $1000 on repairs only 2 months before we got married. She claims that the arrangement at the time was that she would put money towards rent and that I would put in the major portion of the cost of the car. That was the strategy, but not an agreed upon exchange. I kept records of how much both of us contributed throughout the marriage on a budget where we put our living costs of $1500 each per month into the joint account to live on from the day we moved into the apartment. I lost those notes but the marriage only lasted 6 months and it would be possible to recreate them if necessary. I was able to show that we both paid equally for all rent and living costs up to the month of December, to include the rent she paid during the time we purchased the car.

A friend of hers had loaned us $3500 to help with the purchase of the car and during the month of November I paid him back $1300 without requiring her to match the payment. Also, that and the money I originally used to purchase and repair the car was student loan money which I still have to pay back someday.

Also, when we purchased the car, the dealer said that it would be more paperwork if we put the car in both names right there and she insisted that her name go on it. I trusted her at the time to be fair whatever happened, and I just never got around to putting my name on the title.

I've offered her compromise after compromise in the divorce, suggesting that she take the car but pay me $5100-$3500 over an amount of time that she would find reasonable, but she wouldn't have it. Even if the judge insisted that I get the car, I wouldn't feel right taking it without at least offering $2000 to her because to both of us it's a huge asset that's worth far more than the bluebook value of it.

She also insists that I'm keeping the majority of our other property, but the most valuable items are things which she left and I don't care for. It's more of a burden to me because I don't know if I'll be able to keep it all when I move out. She only left it all because there's no room to store anything at her parents house.

She said she talked to an attorney and that her attorney said that the judge would just decide and still screw over whoever doesn't get the car because the bluebook value is so low and we still owe $2200 to her friend on it. Her friend and I have no problems with each other and I would gladly pay him back if I got the car, but she insists that the fact that he is her friend originally is a significant argument to let her have the car.

Finally, it's probably not significant in a legal sense, but she even had me sell my bicycle while we moved in together because she didn't want it crowding the precious patio that she wanted to relax on. I had originally bought it brand new with accessories for $350, but sold it along with the accessories for $50 because she insisted and because we had a car. Now I have no transportation alternative but the bus system.

My question is, what would the judge likely decide?
What the heck is a marriage councilor? Is there a marriage council on which this person sits?

Maybe Antigone can shed some light on this...
 

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