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They disagree on summer visitation order

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Gemini

Member
What is the name of your state? FL

In a Stipulated Order dated, October 20, 2005, my husband is to receive co-parenting time for summer break as follows (word for word, as written in order):

D. Summer Break: The Father shall have five (5) weeks of co-parenting time during each summer break. The Father shall notify the Mother in writing by no later than May 15th each year as to the dates when he wishes to exercise his summer visitation. The Father's summer visitation shall begin no earlier than one week after school ends and shall end no later than one week prior to school recommencing.

This is almost word for word what the mom's (CP) attorney asked for (as written in the transcripts), but she claims that dad (NCP) only gets to chose between the first or last 5 weeks.

1. Dad sent a letter to mom certified mail with return receipt notifying her of the dates that dad wished to exercise is co-parenting times. He chose June 18th through July 23rd (it was meant to be Father's Day but he wrote "Sunday, June 18th"- he should have written June 17th, but to prevent further complication he is just going with the 18th.) The letter was received and he got a phone call from mom's boyfriend on May 14th stating that he could not have co-parenting time on the days that he "WISHES", that he must chose between the first or last 5 week period.:confused:

2. Dad received a certified letter with return receipt from mom notifying him that his "WISHED" dates were interfering with her parenting time during the summer and she was denying his wished dates. She gives dad until May 31st to respond or she will defer his visitation to the last five weeks of the summer which is July 9-August 13 and she will leave for vacation with the child. By the way, the letter was received on Saturday, May 26th and with the long weekend and no mail on Monday it will be difficult to get a response back by the 31st, but dad has sent one stating the original dates that he requested (Certified mail/return receipt).:rolleyes:

Mom's defense is that the Court only gives him the ability to chose the dates that he "WISHES" not the dates to exercise visitation, and she believes that she gets the final decision as to grant his "WISHES":D

Dad also has phone recordings of the conversations that become very abusive to dad. Please note that dad did notify the mom & boyfriend that they were being recorded, the boyfriend stated that he did not want to be recorded and dad told him to get off the phone then, since he had no legal standing in the matter. The boyfriend continued the conversation, so are these recordings usable for anything? At one point the boyfriend actually tells the child to come talk to her F------ A--Hole father.:eek:

Is my husbang correct in his interpretation of the order? There were no issues involving the dates that he chose last year under this same order. Can he in fact chose to exercise his visitation during any 5 weeks of the summer as long as they don't fall within 1 week of school getting out or starting back?

Can the recordings be used in court to show the interference with visitation/phone contact? The mom refuses to give a home phone number to dad and makes him leave a message on the boyfriend's cell. When they do let the child return the call, it is usually several days later and only after dad leaves other messages.

In case it may be important, the child is 14 years old and lives about 5 miles away, so any summer activities could be continued while at our home.What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?
 


Silverplum

Senior Member
Thanks for typing the CO, word for word! :) That's the only way to get valid help, and you have saved us the misery of extracting facts one by one.

In no particular order:
FL is a two-party consent state for taping:
http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/telephone.htm

The way I read the order is the same as you & Dad do -- that he can take 5 weeks between the two weeks bordering the end and start of the school year. He provided proper notice, wisely sent RRR.

He can't file contempt until she actually does not provide child for his parenting time.

Others will chime in, but I say Dad is in the right and should stand his ground.
 
One question, isn't June 18 - July 23 the first 5 weeks after school gets out?

If the court order does not state that Mom gets to decide when the dates are, then she does not get to decide. He should send the letter again, CRR, stating the times that he will exercise his vacation with his son, and state that if the child is not ready to go on that date, a motion of contempt will be immediately filed.

Heck, Dad can choose 5 weeks one week apart if he wanted...there is nothing in the provision that states that his 5 weeks has to be consecutive - he could take 3 weeks 1 month, and 2 weeks the next month. There are all sorts of combinations that he could do, and still be following the court order. It doesn't appear with what's worded that Mom has much say so in when he gets to take his time.

He still may wish to submit a motion for clarification, to clarify that Dad gives mom the dates that we "WILL" exercise his visitation, removing the word "WISH" Is there anything about Dad automatically getting Father's Day every year? If there is, then don't count that as part of the summer visitation block. Also, July 4th - is that a holiday that is swapped? That may be something, if Dad had July 4th last year, then maybe offer it to Mom this year, maybe breaking up the 5 weeks right there, so that Mom has 1 week surrounding July 4th.

It's always better to work with the other parent than fight with them - I know, I'm constantly fighting with my ex, even though I've tried to work with him over and over again.
 

GrowUp!

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? FL

In a Stipulated Order dated, October 20, 2005, my husband is to receive co-parenting time for summer break as follows (word for word, as written in order):

D. Summer Break: The Father shall have five (5) weeks of co-parenting time during each summer break. The Father shall notify the Mother in writing by no later than May 15th each year as to the dates when he wishes to exercise his summer visitation. The Father's summer visitation shall begin no earlier than one week after school ends and shall end no later than one week prior to school recommencing.

This is almost word for word what the mom's (CP) attorney asked for (as written in the transcripts), but she claims that dad (NCP) only gets to chose between the first or last 5 weeks.
Mom is WRONG. Clearly mom is illiterate. What it means is this: If school lets out on June 6th, then Dad can not have summer vacation time until NO EARLIER THAN June 13th. Now if kiddo goes back on August 28th, then Dad's vacation parenting time must end NO LATER THAN August 21st.

1. Dad sent a letter to mom certified mail with return receipt notifying her of the dates that dad wished to exercise is co-parenting times. He chose June 18th through July 23rd (it was meant to be Father's Day but he wrote "Sunday, June 18th"- he should have written June 17th, but to prevent further complication he is just going with the 18th.) The letter was received and he got a phone call from mom's boyfriend on May 14th stating that he could not have co-parenting time on the days that he "WISHES", that he must chose between the first or last 5 week period.:confused:
Tell Mom's bf to butt out or he will be dragged into court for interfering with a parent-child relationship, among other civil penalties. And if he doesn't like that, tell him to screw off (or himself LOL). Mom does not have a choice. Dad chose those dates to exercise him time and if he gave proper notice, then Mom must abide by that. Or else.

2. Dad received a certified letter with return receipt from mom notifying him that his "WISHED" dates were interfering with her parenting time during the summer and she was denying his wished dates.
Too bad. She does not have that legal authority.

She gives dad until May 31st to respond or she will defer his visitation to the last five weeks of the summer which is July 9-August 13 and she will leave for vacation with the child. By the way, the letter was received on Saturday, May 26th and with the long weekend and no mail on Monday it will be difficult to get a response back by the 31st, but dad has sent one stating the original dates that he requested (Certified mail/return receipt).:rolleyes:
Overnight something -- and follow up with a phone call -- telling Mom to take her conflicts and go pound sand. The court order clearly states that he has until May 15th to let her know. Therefore, she is supposed to wait until then to schedule her time around Dad's wishes.

Mom's defense is that the Court only gives him the ability to chose the dates that he "WISHES" not the dates to exercise visitation, and she believes that she gets the final decision as to grant his "WISHES":D
That's too bad. Tons of orders are like this.
Dad also has phone recordings of the conversations that become very abusive to dad. Please note that dad did notify the mom & boyfriend that they were being recorded, the boyfriend stated that he did not want to be recorded and dad told him to get off the phone then, since he had no legal standing in the matter. The boyfriend continued the conversation, so are these recordings usable for anything? At one point the boyfriend actually tells the child to come talk to her F------ A--Hole father.:eek:
Since he refused -- and is interfering -- I would use them in court and also modify the order to put severe restrictions on the other parent's significant other from interferring.

Is my husbang correct in his interpretation of the order? There were no issues involving the dates that he chose last year under this same order. Can he in fact chose to exercise his visitation during any 5 weeks of the summer as long as they don't fall within 1 week of school getting out or starting back?
Yes, your husband is correct.

Can the recordings be used in court to show the interference with visitation/phone contact? The mom refuses to give a home phone number to dad and makes him leave a message on the boyfriend's cell. When they do let the child return the call, it is usually several days later and only after dad leaves other messages.
Recordings can be used in this instance because they were being made aware of the recording. And cite in the contempt that Mom is not giving proper emergency contact info -- and that she has provided her boyfriend's number and calls are not being returned in a timely manner (and cite language if it is specific that a home number must be given).

In case it may be important, the child is 14 years old and lives about 5 miles away, so any summer activities could be continued while at our home.What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?
Age is irrelevant in this matter.

Mom is wrong -- Dad is right. Dad should reiterate to Mom that she is wrong and he will exercise his parenting time as outlined in his timely notice to her and if she has a problem, the she is advised to file the appropriate motions in court and if she or her boyfriend further interferes, he'll stomp on 2 birds with one stone in court. LOL
 

Gemini

Member
Much appreciation!

Thanks for typing the CO, word for word! :) That's the only way to get valid help, and you have saved us the misery of extracting facts one by one.
Thanks Silverplum!!! :) I am soooo glad I got it right-the first time!


=angeleyzad;1642473]One question, isn't June 18 - July 23 the first 5 weeks after school gets out?
Sorry, school has already been out here for a week, so he could technically begin visitation today.

Heck, Dad can choose 5 weeks one week apart if he wanted...there is nothing in the provision that states that his 5 weeks has to be consecutive - he could take 3 weeks 1 month, and 2 weeks the next month. There are all sorts of combinations that he could do, and still be following the court order. It doesn't appear with what's worded that Mom has much say so in when he gets to take his time.
We were wondering about this too, we just didn't want to completely freak mom out...this year anyway, maybe next year! ;)

He still may wish to submit a motion for clarification, to clarify that Dad gives mom the dates that we "WILL" exercise his visitation, removing the word "WISH" Is there anything about Dad automatically getting Father's Day every year? If there is, then don't count that as part of the summer visitation block. Also, July 4th - is that a holiday that is swapped? That may be something, if Dad had July 4th last year, then maybe offer it to Mom this year, maybe breaking up the 5 weeks right there, so that Mom has 1 week surrounding July 4th.
There is no specifics for any holidays other than Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring and Summer breaks. Mom took daughter out of state against court order and this is the long distance order. Even though they have moved back, we are still following that order until modification is heard.

Thanks GrowUp!I appreciate all the advice so far! My husband we will be so glad to read this. We have a consult with an attorney, but will probably file contempt ourselves if stepdaughter doesn't get to come on the dates dad requested. Mom already has one contempt charge against her for interfering with visitation.
 

Gemini

Member
Now this!

First, sorry this is so long, this is the most recent order pertaining this child.


1. The Respondent/Mother, XXX, shall remain the primary residential custodian of the minor child, XXX, born XXX, and shall be permitted to remain residing in the State of Tennessee with the minor child, subject to visitation with the Petitioner/Father, XXX as follows:

A. Thanksgiving- (irrelevant- I'm borrowing this word from senior members)
B. Christmas- (irrelevant)
C. Spring Break- (irrelevant)
D. Summer Break- (listed in original post above)
2. Each parent shall be responsible for the cost of caring for the minor child when the child is in their respective custody.
3. Each parent shall be entitled to open and liberal telephonic communication with the minor child.
4. Commencing October 20, 2005, the Father's child support obligation shall be terminated. In lieu of child support being paid to the Mother, the Father shall be solely responsible for the costs associated with transporting the minor child to facilitate his visitation. Should the Father make flight arrangement for the child to travel to facilitate his visitation, the Mother shall cooperate by delivering the child to the airport and picking the child up from the airport after the Father's visitation.[/I]

***This is the most recent order, but please note that the mom and child now reside back in Florida, within 5 minutes of us. Dad has filed a modification of visitation, but no hearing date has been set yet, so they still go by this Tennessee order. Mom and daughter have been back in Florida for almost a year now. Dad only found out a couple of months ago. They continued using a FL cell phone number in TN and it is still the only contact number dad has for his daughter.

Mom received dad's last response Certified mail w/return receipt yesterday (by mom's 31st deadline) and dad received a call from the enraged boyfriend last night. They are now threatening to take the daughter to TN for the "family vacation" that they keep complaining about and making him fly her back to FL for his visitation. We are now worried that because the old TN order stating dad is responsible for flight transportation from TN is in affect that they could possibly pull this off. Could the fact that mom and child have lived in FL for quite some time and the child went to school here this year prevent them from using this scenario?

Technically the part about providing transportation in lieu of child support is no longer valid. Dad only found out about the child being back in state because mom filed to reopen child support. Dad now pays support and is current. At the hearing to reinstate child support, the hearing officer stated that mom "tried to pull a fast one last time, lets not let her get away with it again" (about contempt hearing for moving to TN without Court permission or notice to dad) This statement was made after the hearing officer noted that mom moved to TN after being notified of the upcoming contempt hearing about visitation interference. As soon as we located mom and had the new TN visitation schedule ordered, mom and child moved back to FL and reinstated child support. So now mom get child all year with the exception of the above holiday and she is again receiving child support...and dad is only seing daughter on the above holidays (until modification takes place).

Should the child still be present in FL as she was at Christmas and Spring Breaks for dad to exercise visitation? Will mom be in contempt if she takes child to TN and dad has to fly her to FL?

Thanks in advance!
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
If mom does that- dad should indeed pay for the flight- I know that makes it tight financially- but it really will prove mom's vindictiveness, then mom will have to put the child on the plane- I didn't see in the order that a spefic airport has to be used,

then dad could include a request for reimbursement of the cost of the flight in his motion
 

Gemini

Member
If mom does that- dad should indeed pay for the flight- I know that makes it tight financially- but it really will prove mom's vindictiveness, then mom will have to put the child on the plane- I didn't see in the order that a spefic airport has to be used,

then dad could include a request for reimbursement of the cost of the flight in his motion
First, thanks Zephyr for the reply. There is no airport designated in the order itself, however the transcripts of the hearing do state that the attorneys discussed Knoxville as the closest airport. Boyfriend stated last night that they had already checked and there are no non-stop flights available for dad's dates and they wouldn't allow her to fly any other way. We are trying not to sink to their level, but as their is no designated airport, if they do take child to TN, can dad make flight arrangements from, say Georgia? The order does state that mom has to deliver her and pick her up at the airport, just not which one :D. Sorry, just a little humor, but it would be a pretty funny suggestion.

Would she still be in contempt if she does take her to TN but allows him to fly her home on his dates? Would she be in contempt if she doesn't let her fly on the only available flights for those dates?
 
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Zephyr

Senior Member
First, thanks Zephyr for the reply. There is no airport designated in the order itself, however the transcripts of the hearing do state that the attorneys discussed Knoxville as the closest airport. Boyfriend stated last night that they had already checked and there are no non-stop flights available for dad's dates and they wouldn't allow her to fly any other way. We are trying not to sink to their level, but as their is no designated airport, if they do take child to TN, can dad make flight arrangements from, say Georgia? The order does state that mom has to deliver her and pick her up at the airport, just not which one :D. Sorry, just a little humor, but it would be pretty funny suggestion.
that was my thought as well- but I am snarky like that, if it says TN then make the flight from TN- but it would serve them right if they had a 6 hour round trip to drive to drop her at the airport


how old is the child? and does the court order specify a non-stop flight
 

Gemini

Member
The court order does not specify TN anywhere in the transportation section. It is stated word for word how it is written in the above post. We didn't receive a copy of the transcripts with the order, we purchased those separately because dad wasn't at the hearing, just his attorney was there, so he wanted to have an understanding of what happened. The daughter is 14 and there is nothing that states that it must be non-stop.

There is, however, a nice non-stop flight from Birmingham, AL to Tampa! ;):D;)
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
The court order does not specify TN anywhere in the transportation section. It is stated word for word how it is written in the above post. We didn't receive a copy of the transcripts with the order, we purchased those separately because dad wasn't at the hearing, just his attorney was there, so he wanted to have an understanding of what happened. The daughter is 14 and there is nothing that states that it must be non-stop.

There is, however, a nice non-stop flight from Birmingham, AL to Tampa! ;):D;)
I don't know if you are serious or not, but I think that's a really bad idea.

Mom is the one who is going to look bad if she does this. However, if you also do something "snarky", then its just going to make both of you look bad, and may cause the judge to take the whole thing less seriously.

Let mom be the snarky one, and let your husband come off as being the saint. It will serve him much better in court.
 

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