This is B.S. and I want a new trial

[minkyboodle]

What is the name of your state? FL


I got sued and I lost, or I suppose the judge decided on some kind of Solomonic spinelessness and gave the plaintiff half what she asked for. Anyway, he took a month to render a decision, and then did so with no comment. So how the hoo-ha am I supposed to make a motion for a new trial or an appeal or anything when he didn't cite any legal basis for his verdict?

I've never been in small claims court before. Is that standard? A decision that takes a month? A decision without any explanation? Is there any way to find out WHY he ruled that way? Geez, if ANYONE at ANY point along the line could have even TRIED to explain why they think I owe this lazy wench any money, I would have been happy to listen. But no. And now, here again, a decision and no explanation. How the hell can anyone appeal that? Or make a motion for a new trial? This is nuts.

 

[Inquiry123]

Is it worth it?

Check out my Small Claims post from a few months ago...

After the defendant admitted that she borrowed all the money ($4385) loaned to her and was to pay it back, she told the judge that she "didn't sign anything!" The judge just rolled her eyes and I knew my case was in-the-bag. The judge told the defendant that a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written contract.

Then the judge awarded me a whoppin' $500 and basically said 'let's all play nice, now!'

I had 7 days to appeal the judgement to the county court level. And I did. I retained an att'y to prepare and argue the case for $750. The hearing will be sometime in June/July.

JETX gave me some good advice on that posting if you want to look it over.

The problem in Small Claims court is that the judges will not always follow the letter of the law and sometimes will give a judgement that is somewhere in the middle of the road -- giving a little to both sides. Many of the judges have no legal certification and were elected to their positions.

Much of what you decide to do with your judgement will depend on the amount of money involved and your chances of winning an appeal. In my case, I'm already counting the $4385 as a loss. But it will be worth the $750 in att'y fees to get another shot at a knockout.

 

[BL]

Check with the Clerk of the Court for Procedures in small claims Court .

Didn't the Court send any other instructions with the decision ?

If you have another chance for the case to be reheard , be better prepared with your Evidence and Testimony , be confident, and mind your manners .

 

[JETX]

"Is that standard? A decision that takes a month?"
*** Uncommon, but not unheard of.

"A decision without any explanation?"
*** Yes. The court does not have to explain their ruling.

"Is there any way to find out WHY he ruled that way?"
*** You could ask the court to reconsider the case, but that will very likely be a waste of time/energy.

"How the hell can anyone appeal that? Or make a motion for a new trial? This is nuts."
*** You can appeal the small claims ruling, but it is not a simple matter in Florida. This is from a Florida Court:
"You can appeal a judgment in a small claims case to the Circuit Court. Appeals of orders and judgments from small claims court fall under the Florida Rules of Appellate Procedure. Due to the technical nature of appellate work and the additional costs involved, it is strongly suggested that anyone who is thinking about filing an appeal consult with an attorney before doing it."

Also:
"If you are not satisfied by the judgment of the County Court, you have a right to appeal to the Circuit Court's Appellate Division. There are a number of good reasons not to appeal. The large majority of appeals are unsuccessful. To win an appeal, you must demonstrate that the trial judge committed reversible error. You must show that you gave the trial judge a fair opportunity to avoid the error (that you "preserved" the error). It is almost always a bad idea to appeal if you think the judge decided wrongly only on a factual issue, rather than on a legal issue. Unless there is no competent evidence to support the trial court's factual determination, the appellate court will not overrule the trial judge.

If you did not arrange for a court reporter to attend the trial, it will be extremely difficult to demonstrate reversible error to the appellate court -- the appellate court needs a record. If, before trial, you think you would appeal if you lost, call a court reporter and hire her to attend the trial. The usual fee is about $50.00. If, after trial, you think you want to appeal, think again. Reread the preceding paragraph. Also, bear in mind that if you appeal you will probably now have to pay the court reporter to transcribe the record of the hearing, a service which can cost hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars, depending on how long the trial lasted. You will also need to pay additional fees to the courts. If you still want to appeal and you have been representing yourself, again consider hiring an attorney or seeing if there is an attorney who would handle the appeal for free ("pro bono") or for a reduced fee. If you cannot get an attorney, see the Florida Rules of Appellate Procedure for further guidance. Note that you only have a limited time to file a notice of appeal with the County Court. "

 

[minkyboodle]

hopeless

It appears to me that if you end up in some kind of civil action, that you should be as unreasonable and ridiculous as possible going in, so that you have something to back off from. I've never seen anyone profit from being reasonable, or from asking for an equitable outcome. You HAVE to be an a-hole right from the start, to parry and counter-sue and strategize and dance. You cannot prevail by asking for simple justice or any ethical equity, because the spinelessness in the system seems to dictate that no matter how wrong one party is, and no matter how badly the other party got screwed, they have to get screwed some more so that it looks like there was some kind of solomonic distribution of the dissatisfaction. Nevermind the facts or the law or JUSTICE, whatever the hell that has to do with it.

So the question remains, if the judge doesn't have to explain how he came to that decision, how in the pluperfect hell would anyone be able to make an appeal on the basis of errors at law?

God, it's insane. It's tyranny ... it's "because I said so, neener-neener." No one owes any explanation. Is it any wonder people go postal?

A 45 minute trial and all the way through it he told her over and over again that she was wrong and she can't do that, and that's not how it's done and that's blah blah blah, but at the end, his idea of justice is to give her half of what she insanely asked for in the first place? There is no basis for it whatsoever. That was the whole problem, a buttload of unsubstantiated invoices. Wouldn't explain them, couldn't explain them, just kept saying over and over that I had to pay them. But COULD NOT say what they were for. Ever. Never did.

He looked at her like she was nuts (which she is), all the way through it, but then this. What in hell is he thinking? What does this have to do with equity?

 

[JETX]

Obviously, since none of us were at your hearing, we can't answer your questions as to what exactly happened.
Simply, and as noted in my post, you can appeal the courts decision based on an error of law. And if you have none.. then you have no grounds for appeal.... and accept the courts finding as much as you personally feel it is not correct.

 

[minkyboodle]

Okay, I tried. I can't. I can't accept it. I've been through hell and I gave my pound of flesh. Now someone else is going to pay.

I can accept a difference of opinions, flimsy reasoning, pretzel logic. That I can accept. A good faith effort that comes up woefully inadequate, that I can accept. A big f-ckover, with interest, and no one owes any explanation, that I can't accept.

It's not that I expected it to be fair. I know there is no "fair" in U.S. courts, except on TV. It's all about selling out one principle of decency after another, just to process the pile, process the pile, process the pile. Bend over, thank you, drive through. Jeeezus, did you see the post from 123? COURT: Yep, she sure does owe you a sh-tload of money. How about you get maybe 10 percent of it and we call it a day? How's that for fair?

No, there is no fair. Fair is a place you take a pig to get a ribbon.

It's time to get a ballbat. Or a shotgun. Since there is no way for a decent, honest person to even get a f--king explanation, let alone any justice, what the hell is the point of decent or honest? The a--holes always win. The only appropriate response is vigilantism. Revenge. A life of crime. Smashing things. See me next on the criminal boards. I'm gonna get my pound of flesh back out of someone.

 

[BL]

Oh boy !!!!

 

[anabanana]

Can you counter?

Minky--

Do you have any grounds for suing her back? Because if you were trying to do the "reasonable" thing, perhaps you didn't consider grounds you might have for a counterclaim. And if that's the case, maybe you could figure out a cause of action and sue her now. It won't do anything about the spinelessness or inconsideration of the judge, but if you go into this one righteously unreasonable, perhaps you'll come out of it with some justice. Most of the time, they really don't care about what's right. It's almost always about getting everyone to split the difference, so if you don't ask for way more than you want, you'll end up with way less than you deserve. BTW, I love your line about the pig.

Breathe slowly. Pray. Don't beat anyone up.