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Thought I had manufacturer warranty, but it's dealer's own, and product doesn't work

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fpbear

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

(I'm going to word the product details a bit generic so that the other party won't happen to come across my post).

I purchased an automated home decor product almost 5 years ago. It was expensive, just under $10,000. The dealer convinced me with their sales pitch to go with the premium controls with home automation integration. They are a major showroom dealer for this product and I had the impression that the system they were configuring was tested by the manufacturer and had the same quality controls. The manufacturer has a 5 year warranty and is known for high quality. The dealer also talked up this 5 year warranty as part of their sales pitch.

Now the system has been a nightmare ever since. The internal mechanisms never synchronize properly, so it looks awkward in the home, and it makes an annoying noise that is not supposed to happen. I have called out the dealer at least 5 times for service calls (perhaps 10 times), each time it's like having to twist their arms to come out to my home (they don't return my voice mails or emails until several weeks later). Each time they have to re-program the firmware with some cryptic commands to re-sync mechanisms that got out of sync, and they tried replacing mechanical components but the exact same problems are still happening. We go through this cycle every few months -- works halfway decent for a few months, and then I have to call them out again as it gets out of sync (and sometimes I just live with the problem for a year or so before calling them out again).

I tried to get them to come out for a service call again, but a couple weeks went by without returning my voice mails or email. So finally I decided to contact the manufacturer directly to ask for a warranty replacement of the ENTIRE system and to complain about the dealer. The manufacturer looked at my invoice and determined that the system internal assemblies were altered by the dealer, so the 5 year manufacturer warranty is void. This came as a surprise to me, I thought I bought a system that was tested and supported by the manufacturer. It turns out that the dealer altered the system internal mechanisms in order to upsell me on the home automation tie-ins. But by doing so, they put inferior components inside that never work properly.

I feel that they tricked me about the warranty -- they never told me that they voided the manufacturer warranty and that they are the ones responsible for the warranty (there's nothing in the invoice either to indicate this). Their own warranty statements mirror the manufacturer's warranty length of 5 years, and covers the same parts, as if they're trying to mirror the same terms to make me think I got the same guarantee of this high quality reputable brand. Now after numerous service calls it is obvious the system will NEVER work properly and I need a complete replacement of the entire system with one from the factory that is NOT modified with their mickey mouse hodge podge modifications. At this point I would settle for a slightly less fancy system that actually works, even if it doesn't have those home automation tie-ins that they talked me into buying (which they pitched as premium controls, making it sound like it's fully supported by the manufacturer).

I am thinking my next step should be to take them to small claims court to get a refund for the system or a complete replacement. What would be the best approach? Seems like breach of contract? It appears they are just trying to run out the clock by servicing the system every few months, even though it never works properly after the service calls. I have a lengthy email trail documenting these problems as I write to the dealer asking them to come out to fix it.
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

(I'm going to word the product details a bit generic so that the other party won't happen to come across my post).

I purchased an automated home decor product almost 5 years ago. It was expensive, just under $10,000. The dealer convinced me with their sales pitch to go with the premium controls with home automation integration. They are a major showroom dealer for this product and I had the impression that the system they were configuring was tested by the manufacturer and had the same quality controls. The manufacturer has a 5 year warranty and is known for high quality. The dealer also talked up this 5 year warranty as part of their sales pitch.

Now the system has been a nightmare ever since. The internal mechanisms never synchronize properly, so it looks awkward in the home, and it makes an annoying noise that is not supposed to happen. I have called out the dealer at least 5 times for service calls (perhaps 10 times), each time it's like having to twist their arms to come out to my home (they don't return my voice mails or emails until several weeks later). Each time they have to re-program the firmware with some cryptic commands to re-sync mechanisms that got out of sync, and they tried replacing mechanical components but the exact same problems are still happening. We go through this cycle every few months -- works halfway decent for a few months, and then I have to call them out again as it gets out of sync (and sometimes I just live with the problem for a year or so before calling them out again).

I tried to get them to come out for a service call again, but a couple weeks went by without returning my voice mails or email. So finally I decided to contact the manufacturer directly to ask for a warranty replacement of the ENTIRE system and to complain about the dealer. The manufacturer looked at my invoice and determined that the system internal assemblies were altered by the dealer, so the 5 year manufacturer warranty is void. This came as a surprise to me, I thought I bought a system that was tested and supported by the manufacturer. It turns out that the dealer altered the system internal mechanisms in order to upsell me on the home automation tie-ins. But by doing so, they put inferior components inside that never work properly.

I feel that they tricked me about the warranty -- they never told me that they voided the manufacturer warranty and that they are the ones responsible for the warranty (there's nothing in the invoice either to indicate this). Their own warranty statements mirror the manufacturer's warranty length of 5 years, and covers the same parts, as if they're trying to mirror the same terms to make me think I got the same guarantee of this high quality reputable brand. Now after numerous service calls it is obvious the system will NEVER work properly and I need a complete replacement of the entire system with one from the factory that is NOT modified with their mickey mouse hodge podge modifications. At this point I would settle for a slightly less fancy system that actually works, even if it doesn't have those home automation tie-ins that they talked me into buying (which they pitched as premium controls, making it sound like it's fully supported by the manufacturer).

I am thinking my next step should be to take them to small claims court to get a refund for the system or a complete replacement. What would be the best approach? Seems like breach of contract? It appears they are just trying to run out the clock by servicing the system every few months, even though it never works properly after the service calls. I have a lengthy email trail documenting these problems as I write to the dealer asking them to come out to fix it.
You were offered a 5-year warranty and you got a 5-year warranty. The remedy you have available is that which is in your warranty. Read your warranty.

Based on the vagueness of this post, if you aren't satisfied with that answer, then I suggest that you consult with a local attorney who can review all the facts and advise you accordingly.
 

fpbear

Member
You were offered a 5-year warranty and you got a 5-year warranty. The remedy you have available is that which is in your warranty. Read your warranty.

Based on the vagueness of this post, if you aren't satisfied with that answer, then I suggest that you consult with a local attorney who can review all the facts and advise you accordingly.
But they tricked me into thinking I had the manufacturer's warranty, verbally that is what they told me in the showroom. They used the manufacturer's guarantee as a selling point. If I had the actual manufacturer's warranty, I am certain the manufacturer would have fixed it properly or replaced the entire system. The dealer never told me verbally or in writing that they voided the manufacturer's warranty and replaced it with their own.

Also, they never fixed the problems. So when you say in the reply "you got a 5-year warranty" actually I got nothing to address the problem, just incompetent service visits that wasted my time taking days off from work.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
But they tricked me into thinking I had the manufacturer's warranty, verbally that is what they told me in the showroom. They used the manufacturer's guarantee as a selling point. If I had the actual manufacturer's warranty, I am certain the manufacturer would have fixed it properly or replaced the entire system. The dealer never told me verbally or in writing that they voided the manufacturer's warranty and replaced it with their own.

Also, they never fixed the problems. So when you say in the reply "you got a 5-year warranty" actually I got nothing to address the problem, just incompetent service visits that wasted my time taking days off from work.
Then feel free to sue them...but I'd suggest that you contact an attorney first, since you're going to have a statute of limitations concern.
 

fpbear

Member
Then feel free to sue them...but I'd suggest that you contact an attorney first, since you're going to have a statute of limitations concern.
Isn't the statute of limitations starting when the person discovers the problem? I discovered that the product cannot be fixed with repeated service calls only after repeated useless attempts were made, which was a couple years after purchase (or later) when I emailed them that I have come to the realization they are failing to address the root cause. And I only discovered that they voided the manufacturer warranty just this week. Up until this week I thought they were operating under the manufacturer's warranty rather than their own.

Are there legal terms, concepts for these two problems I ran into? Probably this is common:

1. Warranty problems are never fixed but the warranty issuer pretends like they are trying, until the clock runs out. Fundamental defect with the product itself.

2. Dealer tricks customer into thinking the manufacturer is guaranteeing the warranty but the dealer has actually taken on this liability by voiding the original warranty at sale.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Isn't the statute of limitations starting when the person discovers the problem? I discovered that the product cannot be fixed with repeated service calls only after repeated useless attempts were made, which was a couple years after purchase (or later) when I emailed them that I have come to the realization they are failing to address the root cause. And I only discovered that they voided the manufacturer warranty just this week. Up until this week I thought they were operating under the manufacturer's warranty rather than their own.

Are there legal terms, concepts for these two problems I ran into? Probably this is common:

1. Warranty problems are never fixed but the warranty issuer pretends like they are trying, until the clock runs out. Fundamental defect with the product itself.

2. Dealer tricks customer into thinking the manufacturer is guaranteeing the warranty but the dealer has actually taken on this liability by voiding the original warranty at sale.
The attorney you consult with should be able to review all of the facts and let you know.
 

fpbear

Member
The attorney you consult with should be able to review all of the facts and let you know.
I was hoping to just take this case to small claims court without consulting with an attorney because my work schedule is so busy, it's hard to take the time to find an available attorney and take the time off work to meet with them. Was there an area of facts in my post that need further clarification in order to provide tips on this forum?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I was hoping to just take this case to small claims court without consulting with an attorney because my work schedule is so busy, it's hard to take the time to find an available attorney and take the time off work to meet with them. Was there an area of facts in my post that need further clarification in order to provide tips on this forum?
You need to have a full review of your case to address the possible statute of limitations concerns. Furthermore, it seems that you need an attorney to explain that you were promised a 5 year warranty and you got a 5 year warranty. Additionally, you need an attorney to explain to you that you will need to look to your warranty to find out if your remedy includes court.

For $10,000, one would think that you could make the time. The internet is available at lunch, and you should be able to find an attorney to meet you during the evening. It might cost you a couple of hundred dollars for the review, but it's probably worth it.
 

fpbear

Member
You need to have a full review of your case to address the possible statute of limitations concerns. Furthermore, it seems that you need an attorney to explain that you were promised a 5 year warranty and you got a 5 year warranty. Additionally, you need an attorney to explain to you that you will need to look to your warranty to find out if your remedy includes court.

For $10,000, one would think that you could make the time. The internet is available at lunch, and you should be able to find an attorney to meet you during the evening. It might cost you a couple of hundred dollars for the review, but it's probably worth it.
I consulted with a very experienced attorney today, and he thinks I have a clear black & white case to get a refund, and spent most of the time going over the process of how to file in small claims court. I tried to bring up more details but then he just repeated that "the judge will connect the dots." He didn't seem concerned at all about statute of limitations (my guess, probably it is tolled because of the repair attempts and recent discovery about the warranty etc.) What he kept repeating is "the dealer altered the product which you thought was a normal product option, so you couldn't get it fixed under the manufacturer warranty, file in small claims court and get a refund."

Is there anything else I should be aware of?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I consulted with a very experienced attorney today, and he thinks I have a clear black & white case to get a refund, and spent most of the time going over the process of how to file in small claims court. I tried to bring up more details but then he just repeated that "the judge will connect the dots." He didn't seem concerned at all about statute of limitations (my guess, probably it is tolled because of the repair attempts and recent discovery about the warranty etc.) What he kept repeating is "the dealer altered the product which you thought was a normal product option, so you couldn't get it fixed under the manufacturer warranty, file in small claims court and get a refund."

Is there anything else I should be aware of?
I'm glad you met with an attorney and I'm glad that attorney feels you have such a black & white case. I am a little concerned that the attorney didn't seem to interested in hearing all of the facts...but, best of luck in court!
 

fpbear

Member
I'm glad you met with an attorney and I'm glad that attorney feels you have such a black & white case. I am a little concerned that the attorney didn't seem to interested in hearing all of the facts...but, best of luck in court!
Thanks, are there any fact areas where you think it could bring the case into a grey area? He asked me laser focus questions, and based on those answers he thought it was clear. That's been my experience with the legal system when I had a major property damage case that I won years ago. The attorney got into specific key facts, and then when I spent many weeks gathering discovery evidence on other facts, hardly any of that was used for anything for either side.
 

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