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Three Questions

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CJane

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? MO

Yesterday was my kids' field day at school. I attended, neither the ex nor the stepmother did. When I arrived at the school, I was talking to the 6 year old's teacher and she told me that as soon as the kids were done with their events, they would be excused for the day as there was nothing else planned other than 'free play' and movies. I called and left a message on SMom's cell phone (the ex has been out of town all week) that I would bring the kids home (to her house since this is their Friday/weekend) if they were done before regular dismissal, and if that was a problem to let me know. I did not hear back from her.

So, the 6 year old was done at about 11:30 and I signed her out and she watched the 9 year old's events with me. The 9 year old was finished at 2 pm. Rather than send them back into the school to essentially sit around for an hour or so, I drove them the 15 minutes to the ex's house and dropped them off.

SMom was perfectly happy with this arrangement, and we stood around and talked for a lil while about the babies and just stuff. I also suggested that the ex and I swap custody times this next week since he's been out of town and hasn't seen the kids in just over a week, and they could have them from Sunday night to Wednesday evening, and I'd take them from Wed evening through my weekend. She thought it sounded great and said she's talk to the ex.

So, I got a call from the ex last night, wanting to know if I was going to 'exercise my extra time' for Mother's Day. I told him that what I thought would be best was that he go ahead and take the kids to church on Sunday morning so they could do the lil mother's day rose presentation with the Smom, and that I would pick them up after for my time. (I'm technically supposed to have from 9am-9pm).

I asked if he'd spoken to his wife yet, and he said no, so I told him that I'd talked to her and outlined what I had proposed.

He was irate. That's really the only way to describe it. Wanted to know when I'd talked to his wife, what I thought gave me the right to speak to his wife, told me that I had no right at all to have the children in my vehicle on his day, that he wasn't even really crazy about me attending a school event on his day, and if he ever found out I was 'attempting to take the kids w/out his express written permission', he'd file charges

1) So, I guess what I want to know is WAS I in violation of the court order to sign them out of school and drive them straight to his house on his day?

2) My order says this:
The respondent shall have the minor children one continuous two week period during the summer months when school is not in session and ending not later than August 15 of each year. <snip> Respondent shall provide written notice to petitioner each year prior to May 1, advising petitioner of the two week period selected by respondent.
So, since I thought my deadline was May 15 and was too stupid to check until now... does the fact that I (respondent) have not notified him of the 2 week period mean that I either forfeit my time, or he has to 'approve' my time? Nowhere in the order is there any language that states what happens if either of us does not give notification by the dates specified.

3) The current order has a clause in it stating that I must have Ex's consent to take the children more than 100 miles from his home unless I'm going to my hometown for see my family.

The new order will not contain this language. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed. However, I'm curious from a common sense standpoint what ramifications there would be for me if I did take them outside that 100 mile radius between now and the new order being filed (assuming I did not get the ex's consent). Would a judge see it as punishable contempt if the issue was raised?
 


seniorjudge

Senior Member
Q: The current order has a clause in it stating that I must have Ex's consent to take the children more than 100 miles from his home unless I'm going to my hometown for see my family.

The new order will not contain this language. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed. However, I'm curious from a common sense standpoint what ramifications there would be for me if I did take them outside that 100 mile radius between now and the new order being filed (assuming I did not get the ex's consent). Would a judge see it as punishable contempt if the issue was raised?


A: Yes. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
seniorjudge said:
Q: The current order has a clause in it stating that I must have Ex's consent to take the children more than 100 miles from his home unless I'm going to my hometown for see my family.

The new order will not contain this language. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed. However, I'm curious from a common sense standpoint what ramifications there would be for me if I did take them outside that 100 mile radius between now and the new order being filed (assuming I did not get the ex's consent). Would a judge see it as punishable contempt if the issue was raised?


A: Yes. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed.
Actually, she must adhere to the current order until the new one is ORDERED by the court. Filing means nothing.
 

CJane

Senior Member
BelizeBreeze said:
Actually, she must adhere to the current order until the new one is ORDERED by the court. Filing means nothing.
What is the difference? The judge has already contacted my attorney with his decision... it was my understanding that it then has to be drafted, signed and filed before it went into effect.

Can you clarify for me?
 

weenor

Senior Member
CJane said:
What is the difference? The judge has already contacted my attorney with his decision... it was my understanding that it then has to be drafted, signed and filed before it went into effect.

Can you clarify for me?

Its not official until the order is actually signed and dated by the judge and docketed by the court. Filing means it goes to the clerk to later be given to the judge. The judge must have signed off for you order to in effect.
 
Hey.... just wanted to pipe in here and tell you that your ex was kind of overreacting in his statements to you. I think it is commendable that you and SMom can be so cordial. Looks like the two of YOU are the rational ones in this triangle.

Not legal advice, just an observation from a man whose own wife and ex don't get along so well...:rolleyes:
 

CJane

Senior Member
NCP Dad in TN said:
Hey.... just wanted to pipe in here and tell you that your ex was kind of overreacting in his statements to you. I think it is commendable that you and SMom can be so cordial. Looks like the two of YOU are the rational ones in this triangle.

Not legal advice, just an observation from a man whose own wife and ex don't get along so well...:rolleyes:
Heh. The SMom and I haven't always been so cordial. But I'm making an attempt and so far, she's meeting me halfway. She even babysat my baby for me last week so I could attend a field trip with my 9 year old. I feel bad for her though, I'm betting the ex was as p*ssed at her as he was at me, and I know how he is when he's angry. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes right now... I can hang up on him... she can't.

Anyone have any answers to the other two questions?
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
CJane said:
2) My order says this:

So, since I thought my deadline was May 15 and was too stupid to check until now... does the fact that I (respondent) have not notified him of the 2 week period mean that I either forfeit my time, or he has to 'approve' my time? Nowhere in the order is there any language that states what happens if either of us does not give notification by the dates specified.
Not necessarily but then if he's being a prick, you'll have to send him a certified (RRR) letter stipulating that you are asking for two weeks and if he does not reply within 10 days from receipt of the letter, you will consider his non-response as agreement.
3) The current order has a clause in it stating that I must have Ex's consent to take the children more than 100 miles from his home unless I'm going to my hometown for see my family.

The new order will not contain this language. I know that in a strict legal sense, I must adhere to the current order until the new one is filed. However, I'm curious from a common sense standpoint what ramifications there would be for me if I did take them outside that 100 mile radius between now and the new order being filed (assuming I did not get the ex's consent). Would a judge see it as punishable contempt if the issue was raised?
of course it would be contempt.
 

CJane

Senior Member
BelizeBreeze said:
Not necessarily but then if he's being a prick, you'll have to send him a certified (RRR) letter stipulating that you are asking for two weeks and if he does not reply within 10 days from receipt of the letter, you will consider his non-response as agreement.
And if he refuses to allow me the two weeks (as I'm nearly positive he will)... what then? Do I file contempt?

This is the first question from the original post... the only one no one's addressed.

1) So, I guess what I want to know is WAS I in violation of the court order to sign them out of school and drive them straight to his house on his day?
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
You won't have contempt since he will be following the letter of the order. But then you can file for a hearing on the issue and have a judge decide if you get the two weeks or not.
 
I'm no lawyer... but isn't it kind of the golden rule that if your order doesn't specifically BAN you from picking the child up on your time, then it's not officially contempt? Wouldn't you have to be breaking a specific CLAUSE for it to be contempt?

On a personal note, I have had my ex do this before. Now, when I read your account of the day, I think what you did was perfectly non-threatening and reasonable. I don't see any hidden agendas or sneaky motives. *BUT*, just so you can have another viewpoint from someone whose ex has done this to them- well, it really pissed me off. Our situation was a little different... daughter was on my visitation week, and was complaining of a "hurt toe" and tried to call me at home, but I missed her call. So she called her mom, who came to the school, checked her out, took her to lunch, took her to the toy store, and then took her home. Called me once they got home and told me to come get her. Ex told me that she thought daughters toe was broken. Yet when I knocked on the door to pick her up, she ran to the car without even the hint of a limp.

I was furious... the ex saw an opportunity and seized it, ON MY PARENTING TIME. If her toe was hurting so badly, why did she take her out to lunch, and then take her to walk around Toys R Us? So you know what I did? I took my daughter back to school and checked her back in to finish the rest of the day...

Now, I'm not sure why YOUR ex flipped out. I think what you did was kind, not at all sneaky or inappropriate like what MY ex did. Sounds like he's kind of uptight.

Remember, you can't control others action... only how YOU react to them. Good luck!
 

ceara19

Senior Member
NCP Dad in TN said:
I'm no lawyer... but isn't it kind of the golden rule that if your order doesn't specifically BAN you from picking the child up on your time, then it's not officially contempt? Wouldn't you have to be breaking a specific CLAUSE for it to be contempt?
She DID voilate a specific part of the order. It was the part that says the day mom picked up the kids was DAD'S time with the kids.

Personally, I think he's being petty. All she did was drive the children to dad's house and he wasn't even there to begin with! It in no way interfered with HIS time, because HE was not available. But, what she did DOES go against the court order.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
ceara19 said:
She DID voilate a specific part of the order. It was the part that says the day mom picked up the kids was DAD'S time with the kids.

Personally, I think he's being petty. All she did was drive the children to dad's house and he wasn't even there to begin with! It in no way interfered with HIS time, because HE was not available. But, what she did DOES go against the court order.
I don't agree. She picked up the kids and transported them to dad's home, EARLIER than they would have normally arrived there. I don't see that it violates the court order in any way.

His comment about her not participating in school things during his days was literally absurd as well.
 

CJane

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
I don't agree. She picked up the kids and transported them to dad's home, EARLIER than they would have normally arrived there. I don't see that it violates the court order in any way.

His comment about her not participating in school things during his days was literally absurd as well.
That was my thought. Rather than 'interfering' with his visitation, I was actually assuring he got more time w/the kids... or rather, his wife did since he wasn't there. In fact, he's spent less than 24 hours with the children in the past 10 days.

I'm about to piss him off again too... and no matter how it sounds, I'm not looking forward to it. Our CO says "The parent obtaining custody of the children in connection with visitation periods shall provide for transportation of the children." I'm drafting a letter to let him know that he'll need to provide transportation at 8am on Wednesday mornings for the summer months since I won't be driving them to school.

I hate all this crap. Not enough to think I should have stayed married... but enough that sometimes I think it would be easier if I tossed the CO and just did things his way.
 

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