To do or not to Do all transportation?

[almostsm]

What is the name of your state? MO

I'll ask the question first and then let whoever read what they'd like.

Do you think the judge might order Mom to do all driving for Dad's visitation, considering she is the one who first moved, and considering she is not following the Court Order?

The following is chronology stating where each parent has resided and when, so that you may have an idea as to why Dad feels Mom should do all driving.

Originally: Mom and Dad married, and live together in IL, with the 2 children. Both are from IL, and both have family in IL.

01/2001: Mom leaves Dad, moves to MO with the 2 children. Mom has no family in MO.

09/2001: Dad moves to WI (he would have stayed in IL had Mom and children still been there.) Dad has no family in WI.

11/2001: Mom moves back to IL with the children and her boyfriend (the man she left Dad for.)

10/2002: Dad files divorce in IL.

11/2002: Mom moves the children in with her parents (still in IL) after her boyfriend leaves her.

12/2002: A legal agreement/parenting plan is reached between the Parents, stating the children are to live in IL. The divorce is not final yet. This month, Mom moves back to MO without informing Dad.

01/2003: This is when Dad originally thinks Mom moved to MO. Mom agreed to do all driving once a month for Dad's visitation, and that he could have the children all Christmas vacation, spring vacation, and summer vacation. He is then told by Mom that she will only be in MO to achieve an LPN degree at a school there, but will be back to IL by the end of 5/03 once she finishes school. With this in consideration, Dad agrees to a temporary arrangement where the children are shuttled back and forth between MO and WI on a month-to-month basis, with the stipulation that IL will decide custody in 6/03.

05/2003: Mom has the children per temp. agreement, and refuses to allow contact or visits with the dad after the agreement's expiration date. She moves again at the end of May (still in MO) without telling Dad- he happened to call her and she told him she was in the process of moving.

At this point, Mom was not keeping in contact with her IL lawyer (transcripts prove this,) and aside from refusing Dad visits with this children, she was disregarding a Court Order that stated she must cooperate with educational testing for the children.

06/2003: Because of Mom's refusal to follow the Court Order and allow visitation, the Court orders a turnover of "placement" to Dad, with a custody trial set for the following month. There is no language stating Dad must return the children to Mom, and it is assumed that the custody trial will set forth Orders as to where the children will go at that time.

07/2003: Date of the custody trial: Mom tells the Court she was never a resident of IL because she never "intended" to be a resident. Because Dad did not live in IL at the time the divorce action was filed, and did not live there in 7/2001, the judge closed the case due to lack of jurisdiction.

08/2003: With the children still in Dad_s physical custody, Mom files a divorce action in MO stating Dad was supposed to "return" the children to her on the date of the IL custody trial. Dad was served notice of the Monday hearing on Saturday (less than 1 business day prior to the hearing,) and knowing this, the judge still granted Mom's request that she be given sole legal and physical temporary custody, and that Dad should do all driving required for his visitation.

Dad does not have the money to fight an interstate battle, so he pays a MO lawyer enough to go to court 1 time, and then pays on a monthly basis until the lawyer has received enough to go to court again for him. Because the first hearing Dad was allowed in 10/03 was only for change of judge (understandably after that judge disregarded MO law when not allowing significant notice of hearing prior to the hearing,) Dad has no choice but to wait until another hearing, which wasn't until 08/2004. He was forced to follow any MO temp. orders until that point.

Though Dad was allowed monthly visits with his children, due to work schedules and finances, he could not afford to do it more than October, Christmas, and 1 week during the summer.

08/2004: By this time, Dad's MO lawyer advises him to request 50/50 driving for his visitation, and not to "push it" because there's a possibility the judge might not even order that. So that's what Dad requested though Mom threw a fit and told the judge "absolutely not" because she could not afford it, and the judge granted Dad's request.

So, if there are questions regarding what's happened since the final decree's been made, please turn to the original post here: https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1412696#post1412696.

No, Dad does not have a good "track record," but he's exercising what he can when finances and work permits, and letting Mom know when and which visits he intends to exercise via mail. It's already been confirmed (not only by this board) that Mom is in contempt of the Order, and Dad is in the process of getting the information together for the contempt action.

So again, with all considered, do you think the judge might order Mom to do all the driving?

 

[GrowUp!]

So again, with all considered, do you think the judge might order Mom to do all the driving?

Good Lord! Just trying to keep track of who moved where...Anyways, I would have to agree with the Lawyer that suggested going for 50/50. Since both parents have moved all over, the court would probably order both parents split travel. If she can't afford it...well, that's too bad.

 

[Noelle_71]

What is the name of your state? MO

I'll ask the question first and then let whoever read what they'd like.

Do you think the judge might order Mom to do all driving for Dad's visitation, considering she is the one who first moved, and considering she is not following the Court Order?

The following is chronology stating where each parent has resided and when, so that you may have an idea as to why Dad feels Mom should do all driving.

Originally: Mom and Dad married, and live together in IL, with the 2 children. Both are from IL, and both have family in IL.

01/2001: Mom leaves Dad, moves to MO with the 2 children. Mom has no family in MO.

09/2001: Dad moves to WI (he would have stayed in IL had Mom and children still been there.) Dad has no family in WI.

11/2001: Mom moves back to IL with the children and her boyfriend (the man she left Dad for.)

10/2002: Dad files divorce in IL.

11/2002: Mom moves the children in with her parents (still in IL) after her boyfriend leaves her.

12/2002: A legal agreement/parenting plan is reached between the Parents, stating the children are to live in IL. The divorce is not final yet. This month, Mom moves back to MO without informing Dad.

01/2003: This is when Dad originally thinks Mom moved to MO. Mom agreed to do all driving once a month for Dad's visitation, and that he could have the children all Christmas vacation, spring vacation, and summer vacation. He is then told by Mom that she will only be in MO to achieve an LPN degree at a school there, but will be back to IL by the end of 5/03 once she finishes school. With this in consideration, Dad agrees to a temporary arrangement where the children are shuttled back and forth between MO and WI on a month-to-month basis, with the stipulation that IL will decide custody in 6/03.

05/2003: Mom has the children per temp. agreement, and refuses to allow contact or visits with the dad after the agreement's expiration date. She moves again at the end of May (still in MO) without telling Dad- he happened to call her and she told him she was in the process of moving.

At this point, Mom was not keeping in contact with her IL lawyer (transcripts prove this,) and aside from refusing Dad visits with this children, she was disregarding a Court Order that stated she must cooperate with educational testing for the children.

06/2003: Because of Mom's refusal to follow the Court Order and allow visitation, the Court orders a turnover of "placement" to Dad, with a custody trial set for the following month. There is no language stating Dad must return the children to Mom, and it is assumed that the custody trial will set forth Orders as to where the children will go at that time.

07/2003: Date of the custody trial: Mom tells the Court she was never a resident of IL because she never "intended" to be a resident. Because Dad did not live in IL at the time the divorce action was filed, and did not live there in 7/2001, the judge closed the case due to lack of jurisdiction.

08/2003: With the children still in Dad_s physical custody, Mom files a divorce action in MO stating Dad was supposed to "return" the children to her on the date of the IL custody trial. Dad was served notice of the Monday hearing on Saturday (less than 1 business day prior to the hearing,) and knowing this, the judge still granted Mom's request that she be given sole legal and physical temporary custody, and that Dad should do all driving required for his visitation.

Dad does not have the money to fight an interstate battle, so he pays a MO lawyer enough to go to court 1 time, and then pays on a monthly basis until the lawyer has received enough to go to court again for him. Because the first hearing Dad was allowed in 10/03 was only for change of judge (understandably after that judge disregarded MO law when not allowing significant notice of hearing prior to the hearing,) Dad has no choice but to wait until another hearing, which wasn't until 08/2004. He was forced to follow any MO temp. orders until that point.

Though Dad was allowed monthly visits with his children, due to work schedules and finances, he could not afford to do it more than October, Christmas, and 1 week during the summer.

08/2004: By this time, Dad's MO lawyer advises him to request 50/50 driving for his visitation, and not to "push it" because there's a possibility the judge might not even order that. So that's what Dad requested though Mom threw a fit and told the judge "absolutely not" because she could not afford it, and the judge granted Dad's request.

So, if there are questions regarding what's happened since the final decree's been made, please turn to the original post here: https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1412696#post1412696.

No, Dad does not have a good "track record," but he's exercising what he can when finances and work permits, and letting Mom know when and which visits he intends to exercise via mail. It's already been confirmed (not only by this board) that Mom is in contempt of the Order, and Dad is in the process of getting the information together for the contempt action.

So again, with all considered, do you think the judge might order Mom to do all the driving?

I don't understand why you keep posting this and asking the same question.
Bar all the he did/she did.. I notice here that you said that mom and dad weren't even divorced when all this was going on? Were you with him during this time? Curious. Anyway..
I'll tell what judges don't like is when the NCP takes the CP to court to get visitation, then doesn't exercise it. No matter what the reason - bar severe illness - judge is likely going to raise an eyebrow and lean Mom's way. I've seen it, I've lived it and it ony gets worse for the NCP from there if they continue to not show up. That being said, you already know what people are saying about this, the answer is...ONLY THE JUDGE KNOWS. But I'd bet on no, Mom won't have to do the driving. My money is on 50/50 and he'll be lucky if he does get it, given his past record for not showing up to get his children. As far as the service with one day you mentioned..its valid. Underhanded, but valid.
Lay people like me always think that the judge is going to listen and empathize and think of the case as the most important thing in the world. Your case is important to you, but the judges see horrible situations everyday and this is a molehill. Judge wants it in and out. The sad truth is, is that court is an assembly line most days, legal matters that seem complicated to us are everyday issues for the court and it only stops and refocuses when there is a issue at hand, like abuse or something unusual. I'm sure some won't agree with me, however, judges want an in and out, they don't want to see piddly this and thats he said she said.
If you want to know the real answer, go to court and get it. You have a lawyer right? Listen to them.

 

[almostsm]

~~~Since both parents have moved all over, the court would probably order both parents split travel.~~~

Dad moved ONCE, and that was only after Mom moved. Had Mom remained in IL, he would have never moved. And once he started a divorce action in IL (which I didn't post, but he did it so there was a concrete visitation set forth because Mom wasn't letting him see the kids on a consistent basis,) Mom "coincidentally" moved back to MO.

Dad exercised every single visitation he was allowed while Mom and the children lived in IL. He had to stop exercising every single visitation because though he was allowed a decent amount of visitation per Mom's new suggested arrangement, he couldn't get off work nor could he afford to pay the approximate $300 per weekend just in gas that it costs. Had Mom never moved to MO and stayed in IL, Dad would still be seeing the kids every single visitation he's allowed.

~~~I don't understand why you keep posting this and asking the same question.~~~

I'm just trying to branch off the original post, (which was about whether or not Mom is in contempt,) and ask a more specific question. Someone said to this question on the other post "possibly," so I would just like more opinions.

~~~Bar all the he did/she did.. I notice here that you said that mom and dad weren't even divorced when all this was going on? Were you with him during this time? Curious. Anyway..~~~

I've lived in WI my entire life. Mom moved to MO to be with the man she left Dad for. Dad and I did not get together until more than a year after Mom originally moved to MO (which was in 1/01.) Neither one of them had filed for divorce, I can only speculate, because of pure laziness.

~~~I'll tell what judges don't like is when the NCP takes the CP to court to get visitation, then doesn't exercise it. No matter what the reason - bar severe illness - judge is likely going to raise an eyebrow and lean Mom's way. I've seen it, I've lived it and it ony gets worse for the NCP from there if they continue to not show up.~~~

I understand, and like I said there is documentation to prove that prior to Mom moving back to MO Dad exercised every single visitation he was allowed. Had Mom never moved he would still be exercising every single visitation he's allowed. When Mom moved back to MO the second time and got the order that Dad do all the driving, he couldn't take off 2 days of work just for visitation because his work did not allow it. He would accrue paid time off, and if he didn't have enough time accrued, he couldn't take time off.

~~~That being said, you already know what people are saying about this, the answer is...ONLY THE JUDGE KNOWS. But I'd bet on no, Mom won't have to do the driving. My money is on 50/50 and he'll be lucky if he does get it, given his past record for not showing up to get his children. As far as the service with one day you mentioned..its valid. Underhanded, but valid.~~~

Are you talking about this last time when he tried to exercise his visitation and Mom didn't show?

~~~Lay people like me always think that the judge is going to listen and empathize and think of the case as the most important thing in the world. Your case is important to you, but the judges see horrible situations everyday and this is a molehill. Judge wants it in and out.~~~

The only difference between "normal" courts, like the one in IL where there are many judges, and the the "other" courts, like the one in MO, is that where Mom lives, it's a one-judge town, so it's not like there's a ton of research to be done every time court happens (which the last time was 2 years ago.) Yeah, we got a different judge from another town because the other judge obviously showed favoritism toward Mom, but I've researched and found that the current judge is also the only one in the town he traveled from. I've even looked online because Mom's gotten into some other crap in MO and found that for every single occurence regarding Mom, her boyfriend, and her boyfriend's family, the same judge has handled everything, from child custody to traffic forfeitures to small claims. No, that doesn't mean the judge truly cares about each case, but from the way Mom has talked about the original judge, I'd bet he knew what was going on before court even started.

~~~The sad truth is, is that court is an assembly line most days, legal matters that seem complicated to us are everyday issues for the court and it only stops and refocuses when there is a issue at hand, like abuse or something unusual. I'm sure some won't agree with me, however, judges want an in and out, they don't want to see piddly this and thats he said she said.~~~

I agree, but like I said, the only thing about that is these judges don't see much and something like this is probably "excitement" to them.

~~~If you want to know the real answer, go to court and get it. You have a lawyer right? Listen to them.~~~

I only came here for opinions and perhaps insight to what other people have seen, which I've gotten. I know I shouldn't explain myself more than I have to, but it's my habit to talk too much.

Thanks.