UnderEmployment and Researching Such

[Ladymom]

What is the name of your state? Texas
Hello everyone.
Well, after over a year of misery, I have finally gotten my ex to agree to leave us alone, for the most part, other than his scheduled visitation. Now comes the fight for attorney fee's and child support. It's funny how this stuff happens, he filed a suit, we gave him a settlement offer that he refused and now, a year and 15k later, he offers us the same settlement we gave him a year ago..amazing. Sad and amazing.
Okay, so here is the thing. The man has a handful of degree's..a BS, MS and a PHD but is working for 25k a year. His new wife is supporting him and his lawyer proffesses that he can't find a job - that he has no research experience. Yet, he was working for the university doing research when i was with him and following our breakup (since 1998 he has been doing research he graduted his phd in 2002.
So, I need some direction, I thought that I could perhaps find graduation rates and rates of job success for a PhD in his field, then of course, show employment rates, perhaps people that he went to school with and how they are faring in the world, but I am not sure how to start. I know I can search the web, but how do I inquire with regard to specific info such as that what I stated above?
Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[CandiceH]

Try www.salary.com
I know there are a few more job market value sites out there. Google is great and you shoudl get a lot of hits. If you know what he has a PHD in this will help. GL

 

[VeronicaGia]

Was he making $25k/year when you were with him? Did he ever make much more than that? If not, you'll have a hard time with this. You are asking the court to impute income to him that he never made.

And remember, what you can do to him, he can do to you. How much could you make?

 

[Ladymom]

Was he making $25k/year when you were with him? Did he ever make much more than that? If not, you'll have a hard time with this. You are asking the court to impute income to him that he never made.

And remember, what you can do to him, he can do to you. How much could you make?

Oh come now, seriously, most PHD biomedical engineers make..first year out...60k..this isn't a man who is stupid, he is simply lazy and biding his time until our court situation is worked out before he gets serious about finding a job. He's had three years since graduation to get a job and while I was with him, we were both going to school. I was with him when he decided to join the PhD program, I toured the schools with him, I heard all about how much money he was going to make. He was at the top of his class and did very well academically. I am still in school because I had to leave while pregnant and to care for our son. Meanwhile, he was ignoring our son, refusing to cooperate with the courts, running pell mell over creation on vacations funded by his new flame and not looking for any job. His ability to perform in his field is, beyond a doubt, very high.
I know this man well enough to know what he is doing, he doesn't deny it. I know he's got seven years of experience with research under his belt, but he tells anyone that challenges him, that he doesn't and that academic research doesn't count. I say it does and that is part of what I am looking for.
As far as my income, I try very hard to make as much as I can and support my three children on it. I work full time and go to school part time, I, sadly, make less than 30k a year and every penny of it goes to support my family. Luckily, the trade off is very good insurance and a few other perks. There is no leeway for anything beyond a very tight budget. I get very little help from him and am thinking only of my children and the life they should have had before he decided to skate out on responsibility. Two people made a child, both should support it to the best of their ability. It sickens me that this type of thing even has to happen, one should want to do the best for your child, not try to avoid it.
My ex once told me that if he had a child with his new wife (she doesn't want kids, part of the reason he ignored his own son for three years), that child would be treated like a king/queen while my child would get the minimum. He only wants to create problems for me, he doesn't care about the child. He only cares about how he looks and what people think of him.
So, back to square one, does anyone have any *constructive* suggestions on research sources?

 

[ceara19]

Oh come now, seriously, most PHD biomedical engineers make..first year out...60k..this isn't a man who is stupid, he is simply lazy and biding his time until our court situation is worked out before he gets serious about finding a job. He's had three years since graduation to get a job and while I was with him, we were both going to school. I was with him when he decided to join the PhD program, I toured the schools with him, I heard all about how much money he was going to make. He was at the top of his class and did very well academically. I am still in school because I had to leave while pregnant and to care for our son. Meanwhile, he was ignoring our son, refusing to cooperate with the courts, running pell mell over creation on vacations funded by his new flame and not looking for any job. His ability to perform in his field is, beyond a doubt, very high.
I know this man well enough to know what he is doing, he doesn't deny it. I know he's got seven years of experience with research under his belt, but he tells anyone that challenges him, that he doesn't and that academic research doesn't count. I say it does and that is part of what I am looking for.
As far as my income, I try very hard to make as much as I can and support my three children on it. I work full time and go to school part time, I, sadly, make less than 30k a year and every penny of it goes to support my family. Luckily, the trade off is very good insurance and a few other perks. There is no leeway for anything beyond a very tight budget. I get very little help from him and am thinking only of my children and the life they should have had before he decided to skate out on responsibility. Two people made a child, both should support it to the best of their ability. It sickens me that this type of thing even has to happen, one should want to do the best for your child, not try to avoid it.
My ex once told me that if he had a child with his new wife (she doesn't want kids, part of the reason he ignored his own son for three years), that child would be treated like a king/queen while my child would get the minimum. He only wants to create problems for me, he doesn't care about the child. He only cares about how he looks and what people think of him.
So, back to square one, does anyone have any *constructive* suggestions on research sources?

As you have already been told, it is very unlikely that you will be able to have his income imputed at a salary level he has never attained. It is that simple. The most "constructive" advise you are going to get is to sign the agreement that is on the table now and when he does go out and get a $60K/year research position, go back to court to modify the child support. Then, even if he quits his job, his income can be imputed at the higher salary.

Just because a person with a PhD CAN earn $60K, it does not mean that every person with that level of education WILL earn $60K.

 

[nextwife]

There are MANY non-working CPs who have degrees they don't use - yet their income is usually ONLY imputed to minimum wage, if they never made more.

Many people have degrees they don't use. My dad, BTW, had a PhD he never used professionslly - he enjoyed earning a living in a different field.

 

[Ohiogal]

Not to mention in all this if you use averages, that means some earn less and some earn more. As everyone else has said, you do not dictate what someone can and will earn with their degree. You have NO WAY of proving that. The only thing you could imputed is what he HAS EARNED in the past. That amount can be imputed to him but not some mythical number you pull out of a survey which has no relevance to the individual. You like your job? Fine. But maybe YOU should get a job earning more.

 

[haiku]

funny how the OP doesn't hold the same standard for herself as she does her ex....

 

[MominMass]

I was just about to post the same reply!

 

[Ladymom]

Not to mention in all this if you use averages, that means some earn less and some earn more. As everyone else has said, you do not dictate what someone can and will earn with their degree. You have NO WAY of proving that. The only thing you could imputed is what he HAS EARNED in the past. That amount can be imputed to him but not some mythical number you pull out of a survey which has no relevance to the individual. You like your job? Fine. But maybe YOU should get a job earning more.

I wish I could...I welcome any help in getting a better job, but I don't have one degree and he has three. I'm working full time, working on a dual degree and raising three children by myself and if that isn't what I should be doing, I don't know what I should be doing.
I am going to be selfish now because when we were together, it was all sacrifice on my part and all take on his. I have the responsibility to fight for my children because they cannot. They deserve to be secure and the life that we built when we were together was a foundation that I keep strong, that foundation being a family unit, but he isn't part of it anymore by his own choice.
I am not being vindictive, I am not being malicious, I am being smart and trying my best to cover the bases that need to be taken care of now, I don't want to go back to court..ever.
His field is one of the fastest growing in the world and I don't understand why people are so harsh here when given a little bit of information. In the real world, I've never had any legal pro be so judgemental to me. I am trying to do the best by my children and so thats why I ask questions. Perhaps I should just shut up and let him skate on his responsibility while he lives off his wife's income? Or should I fight for my child and insist he step up to his responsibility after ignoring his child for three years.
Seriously, why is everyone here so judgemental? I asked a simply question and I get answers that point fingers everywhere except at the issue at hand.
And by the way, settle for what? Tthe settlement that I offered over a year ago, when this all started, based on what he told me he wanted, was rejected and now, a year and 15 k later, his FREE lawyer (sister in law) proposes the same settlement with one change..less visitation on his part.
Great guy..

FAMILY CODE

CHAPTER 154. CHILD SUPPORT

SUBCHAPTER A. COURT-ORDERED CHILD SUPPORT
§ 154.066. INTENTIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT OR
UNDEREMPLOYMENT. If the actual income of the obligor is
significantly less than what the obligor could earn because of
intentional unemployment or underemployment, the court may apply
the support guidelines to the earning potential of the obligor.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, § 1, eff. April 20, 1995.

 

[Ladymom]

There are MANY non-working CPs who have degrees they don't use - yet their income is usually ONLY imputed to minimum wage, if they never made more.

Many people have degrees they don't use. My dad, BTW, had a PhD he never used professionslly - he enjoyed earning a living in a different field.

I'm the CP, I have sole.

 

[Ladymom]

As you have already been told, it is very unlikely that you will be able to have his income imputed at a salary level he has never attained. It is that simple. The most "constructive" advise you are going to get is to sign the agreement that is on the table now and when he does go out and get a $60K/year research position, go back to court to modify the child support. Then, even if he quits his job, his income can be imputed at the higher salary.

Just because a person with a PhD CAN earn $60K, it does not mean that every person with that level of education WILL earn $60K.

I understand ,but according to other things I've been told by people on forums, I should present research to the judge and let the judge decide. So, thats what I am simply trying to do.

 

[ceara19]

I wish I could...I welcome any help in getting a better job, but I don't have one degree and he has three. I'm working full time, working on a dual degree and raising three children by myself and if that isn't what I should be doing, I don't know what I should be doing.
I am going to be selfish now because when we were together, it was all sacrifice on my part and all take on his. I have the responsibility to fight for my children because they cannot. They deserve to be secure and the life that we built when we were together was a foundation that I keep strong, that foundation being a family unit, but he isn't part of it anymore by his own choice.

That statement is going to go over like a lead balloon with the judge! When you decided to bring an innocent child into this world, you lost your right to be selfish. If dad is being selfish, prove it and let the Judge deal with him. The whole tit for tat is very childish and will only HURT your case.

I am not being vindictive, I am not being malicious, I am being smart and trying my best to cover the bases that need to be taken care of now, I don't want to go back to court..ever.
His field is one of the fastest growing in the world and I don't understand why people are so harsh here when given a little bit of information. In the real world, I've never had any legal pro be so judgemental to me. I am trying to do the best by my children and so thats why I ask questions. Perhaps I should just shut up and let him skate on his responsibility while he lives off his wife's income? Or should I fight for my child and insist he step up to his responsibility after ignoring his child for three years.

If he want to live off of his wife's income, that is none of your business as long as he pays the child support ordered by the court. The court is NOT going to base that child support on some imaginary number that you have decided is the amount he COULD earn, when he has NEVER at any point earned that amount. The people here are trying to give you a little insight to the way the law works and you want to continue to argue your point. Try that in court and see how far it gets you.

Seriously, why is everyone here so judgemental? I asked a simply question and I get answers that point fingers everywhere except at the issue at hand.
And by the way, settle for what? Tthe settlement that I offered over a year ago, when this all started, based on what he told me he wanted, was rejected and now, a year and 15 k later, his FREE lawyer (sister in law) proposes the same settlement with one change..less visitation on his part.
Great guy..

No one is being judgemental. They are TRYING to give you the FACTS. You are choosing to be argumentative about it. It is not uncommon to go through a lengthy court battle and end up at the same place you started. It happens all the time. How do you think the judge will view the fact that you are now refusing to accept the offer that YOU came up with to begin with?
Why should he be punished for having a free lawyer. You are more then welcome to go out and marry a man whose sister is an attorney and get free council for yourself. I seriously doubt that he married his current wife because her sister is a lawyer!

FAMILY CODE

CHAPTER 154. CHILD SUPPORT

SUBCHAPTER A. COURT-ORDERED CHILD SUPPORT
§ 154.066. INTENTIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT OR
UNDEREMPLOYMENT. If the actual income of the obligor is
significantly less than what the obligor could earn because of
intentional unemployment or underemployment, the court may apply
the support guidelines to the earning potential of the obligor.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, § 1, eff. April 20, 1995.

As you have already been told, you have no way of PROVING that he is capable of making $60K a year. You can only prove that he is able to earn $25K a year.
My ex earns in excess of 6 figures a year. He earns an unusually high amount for the field he is in. During our divorce, he took a job at a gas station earning minimum wage. When that didn't fly with the judge, he tried to have the support set using the "average earnings" for his line of work. I presented tax returns PROVING his earning ability. The judge had 3 options to chose from. Actual earnings, earning potential estimates based on his "research" and ACTUAL EARNING POTENTIAL, guess which one she chose.

I understand ,but according to other things I've been told by people on forums, I should present research to the judge and let the judge decide. So, thats what I am simply trying to do.

You can present whatever you want to the judge. But unless you can prove that he was offered a position with a salary in the $60K range, your "research" means nothing. It is very unlikely that you will NEVER have to go back to court. You need to chose your battles wisely.

 

[ceara19]

Just stop and think about it for one minute. As you have stated, he has an attorney and you do not. Your ex's attorney has a duty to protect their client's interests to the best of their ability within the confines of the law. His attorney, by definition, has gone to law school, graduated, passed the bar and obtained a license to practice law. You have not. Therefore it is safe to assume that her legal knowledge is far more advanced then yours.

I think it is also safe to assume that her client's (your ex) wishes include minimal child support payments. I doubt if he told his lawyer to "get me the highest child support obligation you can".

Using these presumed facts, don't you think that if his attorney felt that you had any chance at all of having his income imputed at the rate of $60K a year, she would be trying to make a better deal for her client by agreeing to child support based on a number somewhere between his actual earnings and the income "potential" that you have researched?

 

[Ladymom]

Just stop and think about it for one minute. As you have stated, he has an attorney and you do not. Your ex's attorney has a duty to protect their client's interests to the best of their ability within the confines of the law. His attorney, by definition, has gone to law school, graduated, passed the bar and obtained a license to practice law. You have not. Therefore it is safe to assume that her legal knowledge is far more advanced then yours.

I think it is also safe to assume that her client's (your ex) wishes include minimal child support payments. I doubt if he told his lawyer to "get me the highest child support obligation you can".

Using these presumed facts, don't you think that if his attorney felt that you had any chance at all of having his income imputed at the rate of $60K a year, she would be trying to make a better deal for her client by agreeing to child support based on a number somewhere between his actual earnings and the income "potential" that you have researched?

Good points all, but his lawyer is emotionally involved in the case (sister in law), has already been sanctioned twice during this case for #1, lying to the judge and #2, disrespecting my prior lawyer. She is too emotionally involved and I am not too concerned about the issue. I do have a lawyer who is advising me and she's very good, but she knows I have little money and is trying to get her partner to allow her to represent me. In the meantime, she's the one who told me to do the research for this.
Thank you for your suggestions.