unlawful 5250 hold

[kathryn797]

What is the name of your state? California My 15 year old daughter was placed on a 5150 hold because she took 2 muscle relaxers and 3 motrin, 2 blood tests and a urine test failed to show any trace of either medicine, because she was mad that she got in trouble for stealing a pair of $7 earrings from Kohls She was transferred from a county medical hospital to a private mental health hospital. On her second day there billing called me requesting full payment for 4 days. I told the worker my daughter is only on a 72 hour hold I was told patients generally stay for 5-7 days so its company policy to bill for 4 days. My daughter hadn't even been evaluated by a doctor yet so I refused to pay for 4 days and the guy at billing told me that at the end of the 72 hours the doctor will ask for me to voluntarily leave my daughter for 2 more days and I said and if I refuse? He said if you refuse then the doctor will put your daughter on a 5250 hold and she will be required to stay for 14 days this is your daughter were talking about so which would you prefer? 2 days or 14? Is this legal? can they threaten me with a 5250 hold if I refuse to voluntarily admit my daughter? and how can they tell me she has to stay without a doctors evaluation? and can they bill you for services that haven't even been used? I feel like they do this to every patient, trick them into voluntarily staying longer, so they charge you for it in the beginning of your stay. My daughters 72 hours is up tonight at 9pm and I'm trying to find out if I need to hire a lawyer Thank you for your time and responce

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I'd be willing to bet she said up to 14 days which what the law allows. And a private doctor can set a standard that they are going to work under. This doctor may well believe in his professional judgment that 72 hours isn't enough time to make a proper medical decision in a possible attempted suicide patient. Since the next legal option after a 5150 72 hour hold is a 5250 14 day hold that is the only option he has.

He is free to inform his staff of what his medical judgment and standard practice will be.

 

[quincy]

You say your daughter hasn't been evaluated by a doctor yet? I think you must be mistaken on that.

 

[kathryn797]

I'd be willing to bet she said up to 14 days which what the law allows. And a private doctor can set a standard that they are going to work under. This doctor may well believe in his professional judgment that 72 hours isn't enough time to make a proper medical decision in a possible attempted suicide patient. Since the next legal option after a 5150 72 hour hold is a 5250 14 day hold that is the only option he has.

He is free to inform his staff of what his medical judgment and standard practice will be.

I understand that he is free to make his professional judgment but is it legal for him to tell me one thing then threaten me with a 5250 if I don't agree to voluntarily leave her? If he felt she needed more time why wouldn't he just request the 5250 first? why I ask me to voluntarily leave her? and if he don't like my answer then put the 5250?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

A voluntary hold is better, and easier, for everyone involved.

As I explained it is legal for him to set a standard. In this case his standard sounds like 4 days. There is no 5150/5250 like order available for 4 days.

 

[kathryn797]

You say your daughter hasn't been evaluated by a doctor yet? I think you must be mistaken on that.

at the time I was being charged for 4 days and being told she would have to stay for 5-7 days she had been evaluated by a doctor 2 hours earlier but his report was not in her file, I know because I asked for it and the worker told me that her report was not in the file but that that's how it was at the hospital patients generally stay for 5-7 days and I asked him how can you tell me that my daughter has to stay for 5-7 days without viewing her doctors report? and he got irate with me and told me not to be telling him how to do his job. that its company policy to charge for 4 days and that theyre not trying to take peoples money

 

[kathryn797]

A voluntary hold is better, and easier, for everyone involved.

As I explained it is legal for him to set a standard. In this case his standard sounds like 4 days. There is no 5150/5250 like order available for 4 days.

I can see it being easier but is it legal to threaten a 5250 if I deny a voluntary hold?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

You weren't threatened. You were told.

It is legal for a doctor to have professional standards.
It is legal for him to tell his staff what those standards are.
It is legal for for the staff to explain those standards to you.

Nothing, based on what you wrote, illegal was done.

 

[Zigner]

I can see it being easier but is it legal to threaten a 5250 if I deny a voluntary hold?

As was explained above, it is legal. If you don't agree to leave your daughter for the time that the doctor thinks is appropriate, then the doctor is free to apply for a further mandatory stay.

 

[xylene]

It is your right to deny a voluntary hold, and to contest a 5250 hold. The hospital may be bluffing and is clearly very concerned with revenue. This isn't some kind of isolated thing that has only ever happened one time to your family.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The hospital may be bluffing and is clearly very concerned with revenue.

You have absolutely nothing to base this on. Why do you skip ahead to the idea that a doctor couldn't have a valid medical reason to feel the need to see a patient for more than 72 hours when said patient is a child that tried to kill themselves because they got into trouble for shoplifting.

It just feeds the OP's incorrect idea that he is being screwed over.

 

[Zigner]

The hospital may be ... very concerned with revenue.

It's entirely possible that the hospital is concerned with collecting as opposed to revenue. Businesses are weird that way.

 

[kathryn797]

It is your right to deny a voluntary hold, and to contest a 5250 hold. The hospital may be bluffing and is clearly very concerned with revenue. This isn't some kind of isolated thing that has only ever happened one time to your family.

You have absolutely nothing to base this on. Why do you skip ahead to the idea that a doctor couldn't have a valid medical reason to feel the need to see a patient for more than 72 hours when said patient is a child that tried to kill themselves because they got into trouble for shoplifting.

It just feeds the OP's incorrect idea that he is being screwed over.

That is my whole point! How can billing call and tell me all this without the doctors recommendations? I’m not hearing this from a doctor or even a nurse, BILLING DEPT called and is telling me my daughter will stay for 5-7 days and I need to pay for four days if I refuse a 5250 will be placed on her. How is this legal? If the doctor had informed me it would be a completely different story but billing is telling me that this is their companies procedures

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state? California My 15 year old daughter was placed on a 5150 hold because she took 2 muscle relaxers and 3 motrin, 2 blood tests and a urine test failed to show any trace of either medicine, because she was mad that she got in trouble for stealing a pair of $7 earrings from Kohls She was transferred from a county medical hospital to a private mental health hospital. On her second day there billing called me requesting full payment for 4 days. I told the worker my daughter is only on a 72 hour hold I was told patients generally stay for 5-7 days so its company policy to bill for 4 days. My daughter hadn't even been evaluated by a doctor yet so I refused to pay for 4 days and the guy at billing told me that at the end of the 72 hours the doctor will ask for me to voluntarily leave my daughter for 2 more days and I said and if I refuse? He said if you refuse then the doctor will put your daughter on a 5250 hold and she will be required to stay for 14 days this is your daughter were talking about so which would you prefer? 2 days or 14? Is this legal? can they threaten me with a 5250 hold if I refuse to voluntarily admit my daughter? and how can they tell me she has to stay without a doctors evaluation? and can they bill you for services that haven't even been used? I feel like they do this to every patient, trick them into voluntarily staying longer, so they charge you for it in the beginning of your stay. My daughters 72 hours is up tonight at 9pm and I'm trying to find out if I need to hire a lawyer Thank you for your time and responce

Can you clarify how daughter ended up in the OP? Did daughter tell you she had taken "some pills" and you called 911? You do understand that threatening suicide because she got caught shoplifting is irrational ...right?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I've written at least two times in this thread that the doctor is free to tell his staff what his standards are and they are free to inform you of those standards and how those standards will effect you.

Wouldn't you be happier if the doctor was spending his time taking care of your child than dealing with billing questions?