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Unreported wages while receiving unemployment

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winter40

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri
I got a letter from the dept of labor about wages that were not reported while i received full UE benefits. The amount is less than $700, i did work part-time but i was in a financial mess with living expenses and needed the extra money so my kids and i wouldn't be out on the streets. Since then i've obtained a full time job and able to pay back the money that i was over paid. I'm really scared that i would be prosecuted but i want to be truthful about what happened. Should i get an attorney or what can i expect when i send back my response?
 


eerelations

Senior Member
The faster you pay them back, the less likely they will prosecute you. If you pay them back immediately and that turns out not to be quick enough, and they charge you anyway, that's when you get an attorney.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
"The Division of Employment Security (DES) actively engages and prosecutes unemployment insurance (UI) fraud. Offenders may be subject to canceled benefits, fines of up to 100% of overpaid amounts, and imprisonment."

DC
 

commentator

Senior Member
Okay here we go again, folks. Some people on these sites sometimes wish to jump in here and tell you that you are about to be subject to the ultimate prosecution power of the law. They quote laws that describe what might happen to you IF after an investigation, the agency recommends you for prosecution. But after working many years in fraud investigation of unemployment claims and the entire unemployment insurance process, let me assure you of one thing based on my first hand experience.

In the circumstances you describe, receiving your first letter, you will not be prosecuted immediately, you do not need to retain an attorney, THIS IS NOT at this time, a criminal matter. You will be talking to no one in the D.A.'s office. This is an investigation by the fraud unit of an agency, NOT a criminal prosecution or even an investigation into a criminal matter at this time.

What you have done is remarkably common. Very STUPID but remarkably common. A lot of people who are receiving unemployment benefits think they're really needy and really need this extra money, and that they're the first people that have ever thought of doing this. Yes, sure, they told me to report any work I'd done during the weeks, but this was only part time and hey, I really really needed the money, so maybe....

They try to defraud the agency by not reporting work they did while drawing. A cross match of any wages reported under your particular social security number with unemployment benefits happens automatically to everyone who is drawing benefits.

They can tell how much you worked, when you worked it, everything that you were paid. Eventually it even cross checks all claimants with your income tax returns so if you weren't caught by a simple wage cross match, they'd eventually catch that you were paid something unreported then. So it is totally futile not to admit you did it or to try to question the accuracy of their evidence. Pretty much the system catches you, you can't get away with it, and you are caught before you turn around.

I'm surprised they didn't catch this sooner. Since unemployment benefits are NOT a needs based, poverty required program, the "gee I was so poor and I really really needed the money" is never appropriate or useful. But you do need to do what their instruction letter tells you. Don't complicate it, don't try to be smart, or lawyer up at this point or obfuscate and claim you didn't do it or refuse to admit guilt. That's just uncooperative bologney from somebody who got bad advice and it irritates the agency representatives you will be dealing with. It makes them much more inclined to push you, to threaten you with prosecution.

The very best thing you can do is contact them, and say, "I did it, and I'm sorry. I am ready willing and able to pay this money back right away." Any excuses, arguments, or legal wrangling you try to do with them at this point is superfluous. You did it, they know you did it, and believe me, they are much more interested in getting their money back than in recommending you to the D.A.'s office and requesting that you be prosecuted.

So you will receive an official overpayment decision, and you will work with the fraud unit to work out a repayment plan, with penalties. Be sure you do not 'over-promise' what you are capable of repaying. If you are financially unable to repay the money at this time, which will probably not be the case since you are working again, in some cases a waiver of overpayment, or postponement of overpayment can be granted. But if you don't need it, don't bother. You need to begin some sort of repayment plan that you have worked out with them as soon as possible. Since this was clear cut deliberate fraud there will probably be substantial monetary penalties as well as the basic overpayment.

I will repeat myself. This is not a criminal court issue. This is not even a fraud case yet, this is an investigation by an agency representative, not the criminal justice system, based on information the agency has received about wages you have been paid and have not reported. And you definitely have committed clear cut unemployment fraud. They know you did it, you know you did it.

But you are not about to be sent away for this, not at this time. Talk to them, get in touch with them immediately, and work with them. They have heard this all before, they deal with hundreds of people like you every week. I will repeat, they are much more interested in getting their money back than they are in filling the jails to overflowing with clueless and dishonest dorks who tried to beat the unemployment system. Do it again, do it on a large scale, ignore their requests for meetings, make them have to run you down, lawyer up and come in with all your defensive legal guns blazing and your chances of being recommended for an actual prosecution rise somewhat.
 
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OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Generally for a small amount over a short period they just want their money back. Did they advise you how much they want returned? If not call them, advise them you received their letter and without making an admission of guilt would like to know how much they are requesting be returned.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Yes, by all means call them. They will have to do an investigation and make a formal overpayment decision before they can tell you how much they want back, but they'll be able to do this when they make contact with you and you will be able to move on to the next step. By the way, they do not give a flying hoot whether or not you "admit" anything. They can see exactly what you did, have all the figures on hand, don't care why you did it, have a set standard for penalties to charge and your admission or denial is irrelevant.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
When you send the reimbursement check, make sure to note you are not admitting guilt, you are simply not contesting their contention you owe for reimbursement and have supplied the requested amount.
 

commentator

Senior Member
I'm sorry, but I've got to interject here again. O.P. You are nowhere near sending out a reimbursement check. DO NOT sent these people any money until you have talked to them and and you are determined overpaid and they have issued you a decision of overpayment, and the AMOUNT you owe has been set and a payment amount set with penalties and very likely a payment program of so much a week or a month agreed upon.

Depending on how much you made during these weeks of work while you were filing for benefits, figured according to the way they figure weeks, not your estimates, you may not be overpaid as much as you estimate. The amount you are overpaid, and the amount of penalties they collect are NOT negotiable.

There is no way you can avoid contact with the agency by just sending them money at this point, even if you sent MORE than you owed, you'd be overpaid and they'd have to get it back, would take it very unkindly that you refused contact with them. Call them, without fear of being set upon immediately, or even of being prosecuted. You need to work with them, this is the best way to resolve this situation and to avoid being prosecuted.

You put this post under "Criminal law and procedure" but you have not been charged with a crime yet, and you are not on the verge of this happening. At this point, you have not even been determined with an overpayment. You just need to work with the agency. The agency is not the criminal court system, state or federal.

As I have said before, no one cares if you admit you did this. You will not be asked if you did it. You will not be asked to make excuses. They know you did it. They have the records before them, from both your employer and the unemployment system. Unless someone else in your family did it, unbeknownst to you, (and it had better be a very close family member, since it very likely went into your account direct deposit,) and you are willing to press criminal charges against them, there's no way you could deny having done it. This is not the criminal justice system, and whether you admit it or not means nothing. Many of the people involved in the unemployment system, be they claimants or employers, will lie from time to time. It's not important to the agency. They want their money back.
 
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winter40

Junior Member
I'm sorry, but I've got to interject here again. O.P. You are nowhere near sending out a reimbursement check. DO NOT sent these people any money until you have talked to them and and you are determined overpaid and they have issued you a decision of overpayment, and the AMOUNT you owe has been set and a payment amount set with penalties and very likely a payment program of so much a week or a month agreed upon.

Depending on how much you made during these weeks of work while you were filing for benefits, figured according to the way they figure weeks, not your estimates, you may not be overpaid as much as you estimate. The amount you are overpaid, and the amount of penalties they collect are NOT negotiable.

There is no way you can avoid contact with the agency by just sending them money at this point, even if you sent MORE than you owed, you'd be overpaid and they'd have to get it back, would take it very unkindly that you refused contact with them. Call them, without fear of being set upon immediately, or even of being prosecuted. You need to work with them, this is the best way to resolve this situation and to avoid being prosecuted.

You put this post under "Criminal law and procedure" but you have not been charged with a crime yet, and you are not on the verge of this happening. At this point, you have not even been determined with an overpayment. You just need to work with the agency. The agency is not the criminal court system, state or federal.

As I have said before, no one cares if you admit you did this. You will not be asked if you did it. You will not be asked to make excuses. They know you did it. They have the records before them, from both your employer and the unemployment system. Unless someone else in your family did it, unbeknownst to you, (and it had better be a very close family member, since it very likely went into your account direct deposit,) and you are willing to press criminal charges against them, there's no way you could deny having done it. This is not the criminal justice system, and whether you admit it or not means nothing. Many of the people involved in the unemployment system, be they claimants or employers, will lie from time to time. It's not important to the agency. They want their money back.
Thank you so much for your response. Tried calling this morning and still cant get a hold of anyone just yet. The letter that i can fax back to them is asking why i did not report the amounts or why those amounts are incorrect. I just want to admit that the amount is correct, i did it without having to state why i didn't report. This is really scary and frustrating.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Don't be scared. When you call them, just say, "Yes, it does appear this amount is correct." No admission. You don't have a reason why you didn't report. As I have said, repeatedly, that won't help. They already KNOW you did it. Just work with them to fix it. Then don't ever do it again. Be sure to work with them, and as I said, don't "over promise." Be frank with them about your financial situation. Be willing to do what you can to restore the money. Set up payments instead of bringing them a lump sum that you've borrowed on a credit card or something. There is some leniency in their repayment plan based on your financial situation, the agency probably won't charge you interest on the money, though there will be penalties assessed in the initial decision.
 
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