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Veterans are dying as a consequence of local misappropriation of government funds intended to house the homeless

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NNNN

Member
California
I am a biologist and former investor who became homeless as a consequence of a particularly damaging and vindictive separation in which everything I had was lost except my dog which was abducted but escaped and returned to me. I was wealthy and experienced great fear and trepidation over the loss of my home and the consequences that would follow. I have no family and the damage of the relationship I was in had deeply damaged my friendships and destroyed my business. I knew I was to be homeless and for two years, I was. I would be lying if I told you it was not difficult, but there is, in the darkest days, a balance and in this case this was found in all that I have learned and in the role I had out there. Because I have an MD (I never worked as a physician, I worked instead in investments), I quickly became the go-to guy in situations that most certainly have ended in death had no one been there to perform the most simple of acts that, in moments of crisis when everything in a 90 second window counts, come too late or not at all because our own doubts and hesitations. On many occasions, words were the only buffer between life and death. I tell you this so that you will better understand the situation that my question concerns and that my words hopefully be believed because were I the man I was 6 years ago, I would have taken far too lightly what I about to relate and the reason for that would have been found in the stereotypes and assumptions we share about people based on things like where they live.
As I was in Air Force Intelligence during the early years of my life, I was given a voucher in the HUD/VASH program. I found what appeared to be a studio apartment atop a printing business. The person working with me at HUD told me that they would have to verify that the address was residential and soon enough, I was told that the building was zoned residential/commercial and I could move in. For 18 months my health was improving and I was able to concentrate on building a life again. That all ended when a zoning compliance officer knocked at the door and told me I had to move immediately. The building I was in was a commercial building. HUD and the VA put me in an apartment complex that I knew had been condemned for a few years. At that point I had no understanding of why and to be honest, I was just glad the transition would be seamless.
On arrival I noticed the general state of the building was dilapidated. I didn’t worry about it. I was more concerned about going back to living outside. However, the worries would come. Again, as there were a lot of poor and elderly veterans about, I fell into a role that was assigned to me by these people: doctor, counselor, reader for those who themselves could not, and general companion for the lonely. I began to notice patterns. Some took many months to emerge.
The first came, as they all did, from offhand comments about my small dog who goes with me everywhere. I noticed that without exception, these comments came from residents whose dogs had died. When I became concerned about this and more probing to the point where I had interviewed every resident here, the pattern became clear: every dog in the building dies at about their 2nd year of residency here regardless of age or any other variables save weight. If a dog was larger, say over 20lbs, it’s life expectancy was about 4 years. Since I have been here two years, every small dog has died and the larger ones belonging to owners here for at least 4 years are dying now. One resident had 2 dogs, unrelated to each other and both died with weeks of the other at 2 years in. In my talk with her I discovered that she had paid for a necropsy for each. One was 3 and the other 12 at time of death. The veterinarian listed, as the cause of death, “cancer throughout the body” in both cases.
Soon enough, I began seeing a second pattern: these fatalities crossed species and again, life expectancy patterns were dependent upon size. One resident bred rats before he became homeless. Living now in this building, he tried to start his hobby up by buying 10 rats. These should have lived 8 years on average. They did not. All ten died after about 6 months. He bought 10 more. Those also were dead on or about 6 months in.
Eventually, I met residents of other homes or buildings in the neighborhood and heard the same story from each: the building I was in was bought and was populated with homeless veterans out of a condemned status with no apparent work done on the building in spite of the fact the health department had condemned it.
Eventually, I met an individual who had a pdf copy of the health department letter which shut the building down. It stated that the building was “too dangerous for even transient occupancy” and that an owner’s idea to run it as a motel was forbidden. I called the local VA and told them what I had seen. They informed me that that information was “wrong”. My caseworker said something more revealing. When I mentioned the letter and asked whether the VA knew about it she said “of course”. I then asked her how it could possibly be that veterans of our military could be housed here. She said, “The County Health Department reconsidered this issue and reversed their position.” Never in my life had I been more astonished. I went directly to the county to see if any work had been done on the building to address whatever it was that had closed it in the first place. Records show that no work permit has been authorized at this address in 20 years. I spoke to my case worker & she stated that the VA already knew this and I was worried about nothing.
I have been here 2 years. My dog suddenly has fallen ill. He is coughing and his energy is gone. If he follows the path of every other dog that has lived here, very soon he will eat less and less until he stops. He will then stop drinking and he will die.
There are 100 people living here. Some months it’s more, but each month at least one resident dies. It’s an astonishing rate. And every one, except 2 out of all the veterans I am thinking of, died with an oxygen bottle in their room, struggling to breathe. These veterans, to the last, are taken directly to Neptune Society for cremation immediately. Their ashes are spread over a rose garden by the freeway. Not one has had a funeral. Not one has ever been mentioned in the paper. To anyone outside, I imagine they simply disappear.
One a month at least.
One day recently, I looked up in my room and with horror saw my ceiling for the first time. Of course I had seen it a thousand times. This time I saw what it meant. This building was built in the late 60s. The rooms have a popcorn ceiling. It’s hanging down in sheets in some rooms. In some it is covered with black mold. In some, there is a lot of both.
Dogs are sentinel animals. A person’s life expectancy can be calculated based upon the death of their dog. Typically, a dog has an 8 year latency period between exposure and death. Their owners have almost 40. That latency period can shrink based on several factors and one is ventilation. These are unchanged dilapidated motel rooms from the 1960s. We can’t drink the water here. We are not told why. I had it lab tested. It contains lead and pesticides and other very bad things which leads me to believe that if I had the money necessary for a lab to cast a wider net, the news would be much worse. Because the people working here are not trained in science, they don’t realize that the people they have told not to drink it, continued to cook with it. I have done what I can to stop this. At any rate, back to latency periods. The model dogs provide is a straight ratio: if they are dying in 2 years, their owners will die in 7 years or so depending on overall health. What I am talking about here is asbestos. I can no longer speak without becoming winded. My son is 28. He is on the autism spectrum. His pulse was 65 when we moved in. Today it is 80-90. My dog will die in 6 months. He is a young dog that should have been with me another 8 years. Instead, he is unable to walk more than a few dozen feet anymore and lies with his neck stretched out trying to breathe. His breathing has become load and reminds me nightly of my error in taking so long to understand.
I have been talking to everyone I can and the local VA seems coordinated in their unwillingness to help us or now, even admit what they openly spoke about earlier: the fact that this building was brought out of a condemned status for health reasons to kill at least 30 veterans since I moved in. My ceiling now has wet spots. Tomorrow I will inform the management about this and will likely receive what previous requests in writing have received: nothing.
The White House VA hot line calls local personnel and receives denials. The locals call me & ask why I’m bothering people. Before I became homeless, my word mattered. 24 hours later it was worthless. I am exhausted. I don’t even know if I have a question. I know I will die as will my dog and likely, my son. It took me too long to realize what was happening. I trusted my government to the point that my mind would not go, for too long, where logic said it must. I believed in America. And I still do. But I also believe that we have crossed the Rubicon. If we can do this to our veterans during a national crisis in homelessness because enticing landlords to appreciate the sacrifice made by American veterans in war and peacetime requires more than what this great people see in their own liberty and freedom, in 100 years it won’t be us running this country. It will be a people that still remember the value of the American dream. By then that dream will be called something else... something we do not yet know. But it will be a dream lost and then found because the people after which it was named thought that none save themselves could have it.
I don’t have a question. This does not mean that none will have an answer.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Do you have a legal question or are you looking for a discussion?

Is your concern with what is happening at Echo Park Lake?

What does your question have to do with environmental or toxic torts?
 

NNNN

Member
I’m sorry for posting this in an incomplete state. This was an accident.
This not Echo Park Lake. The facts of this situation have not yet come to be publicly known. At this stage it is myself alone. These people make easy victims. They don’t know what asbestos is. Here, decorated veterans who are, in some cases, eligible for burial at Arlington, can be burned, their ashes strewn along a stretch of urban freeway without the brink of an eye. Their deposit taken and their name forgotten. I have significant fear about being the one that makes this public. I have an autistic son to worry about. There is little doubt I would be rendered homeless as so many others have for reasons like “having visitors”. I watched a veteran in a wheelchair rolled to the sidewalk by sheriff’s deputies last week during a corona virus moratorium. Too bad he paid his rent. He was evicted for “violation of policy on visitors” meaning that he had them. The same judge that oversees every eviction from this property signed off on it. I don’t know where he went. Some find housing again. Some, like “Sue”, who was locked out by the landlord while in the hospital, die. “Sue” was murdered 8 months later. She was found bludgeoned to death in her tent down by a creek. She had lost her mind years ago when during a divorce, her husband showed up at her apartment and shot her children and himself in front of her very eyes. Her life reduced to chain smoking and screaming at the top of lungs, who was going to listen to her? She saw her door was padlocked and simply walked away shouting into the night.
I am the first person out here with advanced degrees in science and medicine and likely one of very few that became homeless in a way that left with faculties unaltered. I am certainly not pointing this out because I am pleased not to have suffered some of the misfortunes of others. I don’t want money. I simply don’t want, at the end of my life, to do nothing as these people see their health destroyed and their lives lost because no one cares. I have learned many things in the brief time that I was homeless and the chief of these is that whatever the reason... because they have no organizational ability or desire or because they have no vote or representation... whatever the cause, they are dying at rates difficult to believe and in this case, under the gaze of a property owner driving a $100,000 car and has behind his mother and father and himself several SBA loans of $1,000,000 that were written off by the institutions that made them with the comment that no payments were made. You may add to this a VA that doesn’t make the slightest effort to vette those to whom it’s money goes and under whose intentions, whether good or evil, a veteran’s life goes. There is much more and I notice barely scratching the surface took 10,000 characters which tells me I have the documents,notes and interviews to take 100,000 more. These are the individuals our government gives money to and the consequences have been that for the lack of that money being spent as it should have been, veterans die. And what’s worse is I have yet to find anyone who cares enough to be effective. One former television personality I spoke to who runs a business relevant to environmental issues is the only person who was appropriately concerned about it. In fact I would say he was frightened... frightened about what would happen should events here become known. I think, on hearing that I myself experienced homelessness, he was perhaps the first to give what I was saying, the benefit of the doubt.
I am an intelligent person. My eyes are open. The truth is I would rather die on my feet shouting to the rooftops that something might be done for these people than cower in fear over my own consequences whatever they might be. Because what is being done here is as terrible as it is easy to accomplish. There is money in it. And this country can no longer ignore that without that we all lose our way. Shall the US taxpayer lie awake at night fearing that his taxes are going to people that kill the very individuals their dollars were supposed to help out of greed and neglect?
Again, I do not know what I want except that I would like my country back to love without reservation or fear. Will money solve this problem? Tort? Maybe. A discussion might. The law has some great minds and it has resources. It might also have within its practice, people that can help. I don’t know. I’m not smart enough to know what we need to do here. And the more I know, and I know a lot, the worse that feeling becomes.
You can try your hand at it. All who read these words can. Because it’s not what I want. It’s what we need. After all, it’s your country too.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I’m sorry for posting this in an incomplete state. This was an accident.
This not Echo Park Lake. The facts of this situation have not yet come to be publicly known. At this stage it is myself alone. These people make easy victims. They don’t know what asbestos is. Here, decorated veterans who are, in some cases, eligible for burial at Arlington, can be burned, their ashes strewn along a stretch of urban freeway without the brink of an eye. Their deposit taken and their name forgotten. I have significant fear about being the one that makes this public. I have an autistic son to worry about. There is little doubt I would be rendered homeless as so many others have for reasons like “having visitors”. I watched a veteran in a wheelchair rolled to the sidewalk by sheriff’s deputies last week during a corona virus moratorium. Too bad he paid his rent. He was evicted for “violation of policy on visitors” meaning that he had them. The same judge that oversees every eviction from this property signed off on it. I don’t know where he went. Some find housing again. Some, like “Sue”, who was locked out by the landlord while in the hospital, die. “Sue” was murdered 8 months later. She was found bludgeoned to death in her tent down by a creek. She had lost her mind years ago when during a divorce, her husband showed up at her apartment and shot her children and himself in front of her very eyes. Her life reduced to chain smoking and screaming at the top of lungs, who was going to listen to her? She saw her door was padlocked and simply walked away shouting into the night.
I am the first person out here with advanced degrees in science and medicine and likely one of very few that became homeless in a way that left with faculties unaltered. I am certainly not pointing this out because I am pleased not to have suffered some of the misfortunes of others. I don’t want money. I simply don’t want, at the end of my life, to do nothing as these people see their health destroyed and their lives lost because no one cares. I have learned many things in the brief time that I was homeless and the chief of these is that whatever the reason... because they have no organizational ability or desire or because they have no vote or representation... whatever the cause, they are dying at rates difficult to believe and in this case, under the gaze of a property owner driving a $100,000 car and has behind his mother and father and himself several SBA loans of $1,000,000 that were written off by the institutions that made them with the comment that no payments were made. You may add to this a VA that doesn’t make the slightest effort to vette those to whom it’s money goes and under whose intentions, whether good or evil, a veteran’s life goes. There is much more and I notice barely scratching the surface took 10,000 characters which tells me I have the documents,notes and interviews to take 100,000 more. These are the individuals our government gives money to and the consequences have been that for the lack of that money being spent as it should have been, veterans die. And what’s worse is I have yet to find anyone who cares enough to be effective. One former television personality I spoke to who runs a business relevant to environmental issues is the only person who was appropriately concerned about it. In fact I would say he was frightened... frightened about what would happen should events here become known. I think, on hearing that I myself experienced homelessness, he was perhaps the first to give what I was saying, the benefit of the doubt.
I am an intelligent person. My eyes are open. The truth is I would rather die on my feet shouting to the rooftops that something might be done for these people than cower in fear over my own consequences whatever they might be. Because what is being done here is as terrible as it is easy to accomplish. There is money in it. And this country can no longer ignore that without that we all lose our way. Shall the US taxpayer lie awake at night fearing that his taxes are going to people that kill the very individuals their dollars were supposed to help out of greed and neglect?
Again, I do not know what I want except that I would like my country back to love without reservation or fear. Will money solve this problem? Tort? Maybe. A discussion might. The law has some great minds and it has resources. It might also have within its practice, people that can help. I don’t know. I’m not smart enough to know what we need to do here. And the more I know, and I know a lot, the worse that feeling becomes.
You can try your hand at it. All who read these words can. Because it’s not what I want. It’s what we need. After all, it’s your country too.
You perhaps can contact the ACLU for assistance. https://www.acluca.org

I am afraid a forum like this will not offer you the help that you are looking for.

Good luck.
 

NNNN

Member
okay, out of all that I will frame a question which, though it does little justice to what is happening here, it will provide you with what you (and frankly everyone wouldwant... a question. You can consider asbestos and lead and mold to be toxic. Other issues may belong to a different topic and should a moderator feel this is the case, he is certainly free to move this.
I apologize for repeating information, but I think it helps future readers. The questions are at the end. My apartment is in a commercial building. The postman does not deliver our mail into the 100 boxes for residents here. He hands the mail to the landlord who delivers the mail into our boxes himself. Because the address is commercial, we have difficulty with getting cable service, banking services and any business with any entity that would worry when a customer is attempting to do these things from a motel room. Every apartment is infested with cockroaches. Many are infested with mice, some with rats. The landlord has never addressed these issues. Most of the doors have no deadbolts, there is no weatherstripping allowing cold air and the aforementioned pests to enter the rooms. The tap water is not potable as it contains lead, arsenic and organophosphates. Residents are not allowed visitors. The very few that have family can not receive them as guests. To have visitors means eviction. And these eviction cases are all heard by the same judge who decides for landlord in every case that I have seen. There is no ventilation as the rooms have no windows. There is mold and friable (airborne) asbestos and the landlord says both are our responsibility. All pets die here from the asbestos. The residents die also, at the rate of 1 per month. The water is shut off frequently and without warning. The landlord bangs on residents’ doors when he suspects there are visitors inside. Written work requests are ignored. The deposit to live here is $3000. Definitely the highest in this area that I have seen and in the best areas. The security cameras are monitored and don’t point away from the building. They point along the doors of residents’ apartments so that visitors can be caught. In at least two cases the cameras actually point into a resident’s room.
Here is my question: in the state of California, can a person be charged rent for this? Is it legal to ask rent of tenants in this situation given that a landlord basically, in the act of charging rent, could be said to be claiming that the property being rented is safe and otherwise habitable for the prospective tenant?
And if not, my additional question is: since friable asbestos is so toxic that there is no safe exposure no matter how small, what recourse does a tenant when the landlord knew of this grave danger to health and instead of informing prospective tenants, lied when asked saying there was no asbestos when there was? I have a “COPD-like illness” that I did not have when I came here and can no longer speak without becoming winded. I hope this makes sense. I’m very tired right now.
I thank you for your recommendation that I try the ACLU and thank you in advance for any help you can offer as to the questions above.
 

quincy

Senior Member
okay, out of all that I will frame a question which, though it does little justice to what is happening here, it will provide you with what you (and frankly everyone wouldwant... a question. You can consider asbestos and lead and mold to be toxic. Other issues may belong to a different topic and should a moderator feel this is the case, he is certainly free to move this.
I apologize for repeating information, but I think it helps future readers. The questions are at the end. My apartment is in a commercial building. The postman does not deliver our mail into the 100 boxes for residents here. He hands the mail to the landlord who delivers the mail into our boxes himself. Because the address is commercial, we have difficulty with getting cable service, banking services and any business with any entity that would worry when a customer is attempting to do these things from a motel room. Every apartment is infested with cockroaches. Many are infested with mice, some with rats. The landlord has never addressed these issues. Most of the doors have no deadbolts, there is no weatherstripping allowing cold air and the aforementioned pests to enter the rooms. The tap water is not potable as it contains lead, arsenic and organophosphates. Residents are not allowed visitors. The very few that have family can not receive them as guests. To have visitors means eviction. And these eviction cases are all heard by the same judge who decides for landlord in every case that I have seen. There is no ventilation as the rooms have no windows. There is mold and friable (airborne) asbestos and the landlord says both are our responsibility. All pets die here from the asbestos. The residents die also, at the rate of 1 per month. The water is shut off frequently and without warning. The landlord bangs on residents’ doors when he suspects there are visitors inside. Written work requests are ignored. The deposit to live here is $3000. Definitely the highest in this area that I have seen and in the best areas. The security cameras are monitored and don’t point away from the building. They point along the doors of residents’ apartments so that visitors can be caught. In at least two cases the cameras actually point into a resident’s room.
Here is my question: in the state of California, can a person be charged rent for this? Is it legal to ask rent of tenants in this situation given that a landlord basically, in the act of charging rent, could be said to be claiming that the property being rented is safe and otherwise habitable for the prospective tenant?
And if not, my additional question is: since friable asbestos is so toxic that there is no safe exposure no matter how small, what recourse does a tenant when the landlord knew of this grave danger to health and instead of informing prospective tenants, lied when asked saying there was no asbestos when there was? I have a “COPD-like illness” that I did not have when I came here and can no longer speak without becoming winded. I hope this makes sense. I’m very tired right now.
I thank you for your recommendation that I try the ACLU and thank you in advance for any help you can offer as to the questions above.
If one resident of the building dies each month, I strongly recommend the remaining residents move out now. April starts next week.

No one should live in the conditions you describe. Report the building owner and building management to the State and seek legal recourse through the ACLU.

Good luck.
 

zddoodah

Active Member
I cut and pasted your three posts into MS Word. In Times New Roman 12-point, it's nine pages of text (3,295 words). And then, before I did a text search for question marks, I noticed this:

I don’t have a question. This does not mean that none will have an answer.
Ummm...huh?

The only non-rhetorical question I could find was this:

in the state of California, can a person be charged rent for this? Is it legal to ask rent of tenants in this situation given that a landlord basically, in the act of charging rent, could be said to be claiming that the property being rented is safe and otherwise habitable for the prospective tenant?
I'm not going to wade through this massive amount of text to try and figure out what "this" refers to. You might want to condense this to a couple paragraphs. If your situation is really so complex that it requires that much discussion, then it's not well suited for a forum like this.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Essentially, NNNN lives in a place that, according to NNNN, is not fit for human habitation and the owner of the property is doing nothing to address the concerns of the tenants, instead resorting to eviction. The property sounds like a motel/hotel rather than an apartment building.

Complaints can be filed against the property owner. A landlord/tenant clinic could help. The health department can be contacted and a request made for inspection of the asbestos/mold/rat-infested premises. And if government money being sent to the veterans living there is being delivered to the property owner/manager and is not distributed or is misappropriated, this can be reported to the State Attorney General and the police.

NNNN describes a multitude of issues involving a multitude of supposed victims. A forum is not going to be of much assistance. The ACLU could offer what we cannot, which is a personal review.
 

NNNN

Member
Essentially, NNNN lives in a place that, according to NNNN, is not fit for human habitation and the owner of the property is doing nothing to address the concerns of the tenants, instead resorting to eviction. The property sounds like a motel/hotel rather than an apartment building.

Complaints can be filed against the property owner. A landlord/tenant clinic could help. The health department can be contacted and a request made for inspection of the asbestos/mold/rat-infested premises. And if government money being sent to the veterans living there is being delivered to the property owner/manager and is not distributed or is misappropriated, this can be reported to the State Attorney General and the police.

NNNN describes a multitude of issues involving a multitude of supposed victims. A forum is not going to be of much assistance. The ACLU could offer what we cannot, which is a personal review.
 

NNNN

Member
I do have some things. I have the results of environmental testing and the response of the county health department to it.
As the rate death rate since this place opened to veterans would predict, several more have died since I last posted here. August has been rough with 2 deaths already.
Quincy, I appreciate what you’re doing. I apologize for being in a panic last time. My health is following a familiar pattern. I am coughing continuously every day for over a month now and I get shortness of breath while talking. My little dog will die soon. His deterioration has been very fast. I sensed these things coming. “Sensed” is probably a bad word. I “knew” I’d be in trouble for having been unable to move and I was panicking.
After I get a couple of things hosted, I’ll post them here. Probably in the next hour.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I do have some things. I have the results of environmental testing and the response of the county health department to it.
As the rate death rate since this place opened to veterans would predict, several more have died since I last posted here. August has been rough with 2 deaths already.
Quincy, I appreciate what you’re doing. I apologize for being in a panic last time. My health is following a familiar pattern. I am coughing continuously every day for over a month now and I get shortness of breath while talking. My little dog will die soon. His deterioration has been very fast. I sensed these things coming. “Sensed” is probably a bad word. I “knew” I’d be in trouble for having been unable to move and I was panicking.
After I get a couple of things hosted, I’ll post them here. Probably in the next hour.
NNNN, you and the others you are in close contact with have been tested for and vaccinated against COVID-19, haven’t you?

If not, you should be tested and treated or vaccinated, and you should mask up when necessary. Your health issues make you more vulnerable to the virus.

We will wait for your update.
 

NNNN

Member
I was vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and had a rapid test two days ago which was negative. I have worn a mask whenever out of my unit daily since the arrival of COVID-19 in the United States. My background makes this natural for me and, as you rightly point out, I am vulnerable vaccination or not.
Thank you for reminding me of this danger which I can not hear often enough. These people are essentially abandoned here. I do what I can to help. When this became potentially life threatening, I kept going, trusting in my training to keep me safe. That being said, the consequences of the simplest of oversights have never left my mind.
I am going to post the results of testing I had done. I am a combat veteran on disability and I spent my entire disability payment on it. I didn’t eat for awhile but no one else was going to do it. And I know there will be more testing. I didn’t have the time I thought I did last night to do this but I do now. I just have to redact some things. That’s the time consuming part. And it will be right here. Again, thank you.
 
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