• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

videotape format transfer

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

T

tryads

Guest
I've been searching the USC for information on the legality of transferring videotapes from the PAL format used in the UK to the NTSC format here in the states. It is my contention that this is legal, as long as the transferred copies are not being sold. Disney, on the other hand disagrees. We are in California, if that matters. Also I contend that I can sell the original PAL formatted videotapes and provide an NTSC copy for a customer's personal, private viewing, completely legally. Again Disney disagrees. I have found limitations in the copyright laws concerning computer program copying, but no claer statute on video tapes. Does any one know where in title 17 or anywhere else, I can find information on the legality of format transferring?
 


B

busta

Guest
tryads
Let me preface this by stating that I'm not an attorney, only someone who also does some video formatting.

"It is my contention that this is legal, as long as the transferred copies are not being sold."

This may well fall under fair use as described USC Title 17 Chapt 1 Sec 107, since this statement, by itself, implies it is not for commercial gain, and it doesn't effect the market value of the copyrighted work, provided the original was legally obtained.

"Also I contend that I can sell the original PAL formatted videotapes and provide an NTSC copy for a customer's personal, private viewing, completely legally."

Chapt.1 Sec.109(a). Sure you can sell your copy of the original tape (legally obtained). The sticky part is 'providing' a NTSC copy. I'm sure you charge them for this. This may now bring you outside of fair use, since it's for commercial gain. Also, if the movie in question is available in NTSC, you're effecting the potential market or value of the copyrighted work.

Now I know 'Mickey' has stopped distributing certain movies in the US, i.e. 'Song of the South', of which I have a copy that my children and I enjoy. Uncle Remis and his social status are not PC, know what I mean.

Make sure the movie is unavailable in NTSC. Make sure you provide the PAL version( if they provide it then you are obviously being paid for the conversion), which you kindly provide at a mark-up with a FREE NTSC version.

I do NOT endorse this route. 'Mickey' wants his money, and hates to share his 'cheese' with the likes of us.

What I do is stay away from copyrighted materials altogether. Do only personal home videos and the like. The only formatting conversions on copyrighted material I do are ONLY for my own use.

And please, please don't make copies of movies to distribute overseas, they'll crucify you.

Good Luck
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
tryads said:
I've been searching the USC for information on the legality of transferring videotapes from the PAL format used in the UK to the NTSC format here in the states. It is my contention that this is legal, as long as the transferred copies are not being sold. Disney, on the other hand disagrees. We are in California, if that matters. Also I contend that I can sell the original PAL formatted videotapes and provide an NTSC copy for a customer's personal, private viewing, completely legally. Again Disney disagrees. I have found limitations in the copyright laws concerning computer program copying, but no claer statute on video tapes. Does any one know where in title 17 or anywhere else, I can find information on the legality of format transferring?
My response: I agree with Disney.
 
T

tryads

Guest
are you telling me that the owner of a PAL formatted video has no rights to convert that tape to a format that his/her country considers standard?? State your findings!
 
B

busta

Guest
Again let me preface by stating I am not an attorney, so I have no case law to reference. If you want to continue to pursue this, consult a copyright attorney. My findings are from the CLEAR language of the code.
The owner, you, of any copyright(cr) protected video, PAL or otherwise, does have rights. But they are limited. The law is there to protect the cr holder from you. They have made the investment of time and money. This is how the law looks at it. The burden of proof will fall then on you.
FAIR USE is the rule.
There are certain exceptions made and they are listed in Title 17,i.e. for use in libraries, classrooms, etc.
Profiting from these tapes is clearly outside of fair use.
from USC TITLE 17 Chapter 1 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17)

Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple
copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any
particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether
such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit
educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in
relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or
value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon
consideration of all the above factors.

What is the purpose or character of your intented use? Commercial right.

What would be the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work? If you can find this video in NTSC, then your conversion cuts into their market.

The only expressed right you have is found in Sec.109

Sec. 109. Limitations on exclusive rights: Effect of transfer of particular copy or phonorecord

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a particular copy phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.

The language here is CLEAR. The only right you have is to sell your LAWFULLY made copy(the purchased PAL original). If you make a NTSC copy, and then sell it, it's for profit and is no longer lawfully made.

The only way you may be able to do this, and again I stress MAY, is if a NTSC copy is NOT available, you purchase a PAL original for EACH conversion, and do not obviously charge them for the conversion.

My thought is that the cr holder still makes money from the sale of the PAL video so you haven't cut into their market, it's not available in NTSC so again you haven't cut into their market, and you have the right to sell your PAL version.

If they brought action against you, you would probably lose although. They have the choice to limit availability in certain markets, and you are attempting to circumvent their wishes. It wouldn't be too difficult to prove that you are attempting to profit from it.

So, when you ask
'are you telling me that the owner of a PAL formatted video has no rights to convert that tape to a format that his/her country considers standard??'
That is exactly what I'm telling you.
The owner of a PAL formatted video, or any other cr video, has NO 'right' to copy it. Or more to the heart of your question, he/she has no 'right' to HAVE IT COPIED BY YOU. They can buy a VCR that plays PAL on their current system. Or buy a NTSC copy.

'Mickey' wants his cheese because he has earned it.

Sorry

Good luck to you

You can still talk to a copyright attorney if you want the official version.
 
T

tryads

Guest
You're pretty bright, and funny too. However I get a mixed answer, I think. I understand that I can't sell a transferred copy, (or any copy) of any copyrighted videotapes. And I understand that there's a "right of content" issue involved as well. But what is the harm in, and legal complaint of, someone transferring a videotape from one format to another, assuming that the original authorized release was purchased legitimately? If there is a one to one transfer, than what is the issue of de-valuing, or bootlegging. If you buy a video that doesn't play on your TV standard, and pay to have it transferred into a format that will, is this a violation of the "right of content" rule? And if so, what is the rule OR reasoning behind this? If I buy a DVD and trasfer it to VHS in case my DVD player breaks, have I violated the copyright owner's rights? As long as commercial distribution or retail competition is not a factor, what right does the copyright holder have over what the consumer does with the item? And as for the "intent" issue; if I sell a PAL tape to someone, without there being a stipulation in the contract that a duplicate in NTSC, SECAM or any other format is prerequisite, but may be an option, is that still illegal, and if so why?
I understand the theory behind these copyright laws, but I question their application in some cases. If I sing a Pink Floyd song at a company picnic, I don't expect to be sued for performing a copyrighted song in public. If I buy Lassie Come Home and read it to my kids, I don't expect to be sued for changing the format from written to performed. I still contend (or am hoping to find advise to these ends) that the sale of an officially released item, allows the end consumer some rights as to how the product can be used, specifically, to be viewed in the privacy of thier own home, without the purchase of expensive machinery.
Unfortunately, I believe you may be right, and without expensive O.J. type legal help we may lose this disagreement. I find that a shame, but as you well know Mickey has an abundance of cheese, and alas, I ask for legal advise for free on the internert.
If you have any further thoughts on this, I'd be glad to hear them, and thanx for your input so far.-----Bobby
 

LegalBeagle

Senior Member
You are allowed to take a copy of an item that you own. However, the two MUST remain together. You can not seperate them.. ie, the copy is only legal providing it remains with the original.
 
B

busta

Guest
LB,

I realize that as an individual I can make a copy, as long as it remains with the original. What happens when I SELL them(together)? Have I changed the rules of fair use?
I'm under the impression that this can be done, but that means that I need to provide the original.

Can someone bring me an original copyright tape and I simply make a copy?
I believe this is not allowed, but is it?

If I can do this, should I have a legal disclaimer signed by the customer to the effect that he/she assumes responsibility for any cr violations?

And finally, if tryads has already spoken to Disney about this, and they told him no, does this open him up for further litigation if he does pursue it?

TRYADS

A couple of years ago I spoke to a cr attorney about this, but since it was a quick (&free) phone consultation, he was brief. He advised not to do it for the reasons I gave (minus the direct reference to the code). I chose to err on the side of caution, since this is not a substantial part of my income. Hopefully, LB or someone else with more knowledge on the subject will respond. I think the questions I pose above cut to the heart of the matter.

As an aside, is this part of you business successful?
 
T

tryads

Guest
Once again, I must describe exactly what I have done. I sold official, sealed, authorized and hologrammed Disney videotapes of a Disney UK (PAL)release of "Song of the South". I offerred, free of charge, for an NTSC transfer to be made AFTER the PAL purchase was complete, AND specified that the second tape(transfer) was ONLY for the PAL owner's PERSONAL/PRIVATE viewing. Disney's objection was ONLY that I was "selling" unauthorized copies of their movie. I don't see as this is the case. I never SOLD any transferred tape. Let me also say that the movie in question has never been released in the NTSC format, and because of it's questionable PCness, probably never will, so the issue of devaluating it's potential value seems nil. In addition Disney shut down my eBay account altogether, saying my auctions violated their "right of content". It just so happens we were making a decent income on our auctions, all of which ARE legal, and we feel there might be some punitive case here as well. If what I'm doing IS legal, then aren't they infringing on my rights to free enterprise, as well as disturbing sales NOT affiliated or connected in any way to their product???
 
B

busta

Guest
tryads

Sorry if I missed the specifics in an earlier post. 'Song of the South' is a great movie, isn't it? Zippity do-da.

Listen, this is exactly what I said MAY be allowed.

You provide (sell) the original. Allowed

You make one conversion and keep it with the original. Allowed

No charge for NTSC copy, included for the purchase of PAL. POSSIBLY ALLOWED!!!

Movie not available in NTSC.

Now, I don't know about this whole e-bay thing, but I don't think you have a case against e-bay or Disney for damages due to the closing of your account. You have no right to sell on e-bay, it's their privately owned website, or store if you will. 'Mickey' is bigger than you, so with a phone call or letter, he asked for e-bay to close your account and they did. They haven't actually prevented you from selling the tapes, e-bay only said you can't sell 'em there.

If you are making a decent income at this, it might be a good investment to have a lawyer look over the merits of it. Perhaps a letter to e-bay from the lawyer outlining the legality(if the attorney agrees this is legal) of this practice will be enough to restore your account. They don't have to though. If not, find other auction websites, or make your own website. Either way your still in business.

'Mickey' may have been trying to scare you off. If you have a legaly drafted letter outlining the merits he might back off. He might file suit to see if you'll fight it. Like you said earlier, you'd need the money of OJ to fight him all the way, but maybe one hearing on the matter will resolve it.

If the LAWYER says it's cool, keep selling until 'Mickey' takes legal action to stop it. Then follow all court ordered requirements.

I'm afraid I can't offer much more on this.
Please get a lawyer to protect your investment in this. It'll be well worth the cost.

Zippity ehh.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top