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Want to teach daughter that " the grass is not greener on the other side"

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Dluvr22

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota

My 10 year old daughter (in this case daughter of my girlfriend) has been misbehaving a lot lately and being extremely disrespectful.
Latest thing is that she feels her father can and will treat her better than her mother and I do.

I met this single mother who was taking care of her daughter 5 years ago and since that time, we have both been pretty much the sole provider for our daughter. At the time and up till now her mother has had sole custody of the child and the father has visitation rights for 1 Saturday a month. Not wanting to deprive the child of her father, we have been pretty lax about visitation and let him come and pick up his daughter whenever he wants which varies between being absent for a couple of months then wanting her for two weekends or so in another month. This man as multiple kids with different women and only attempts to see his kids when it suits him. We have been very generous over the years and have not collected a single penny from him in child support nor have we ever asked him to provide for his daughter. He did have to pay child support at one point before her mother and I met but as the story goes, he asked her to let him off as he could not afford it and she agreed to.

The problem is the little girl misbehaves and when she is disciplined, she says I am not her father and have no right to discipline her. She has been rude and disrespectful and some of the things she says leads us to believe that he says things to her when she visits with him that contributes to her behavior. She has behaved the same way at school in the past that resulted in her getting expelled from one school at such a young age. We've also taken the necessary steps by taking her to see a psychiatrist but she is old enough to be manipulative and only says what she thinks the psychiatrist wants to hear.

On the other hand her father pretends to be oblivious to what is going on claims that she never behaves that way at his home and that we are manufacturing things about his daughter even though I have taped her actions on numerous occasions. Strangely enough we let her spend last summer with him and within 3 weeks she was crying and begging to come back home. We had also enrolled her in summer schools and the same father called up complaining that he cannot handle her as she kept getting in trouble and was eventually also expelled from the summer program. Eventually we had to pick her up in the middle of summer as she did not want to be there and he was only too happy to hand her over.

In order to teach her a lesson her mother and I are debating the pros and cons of sending her to live with her father for 1 year as he claims he can take care of her better than we can.
We are almost certain that he will make a mess of it and she will finally see her father for who he really is but:

1. We are concerned of the legal aspects involved. At this time we do have full custody however we are concerned whether having her live with him will give him enough legal ground to try to fight us in court for custody of the kid.

2. He also lives in a seedy neighborhood where there has been a lot of violence and we really would not want our child to be exposed to such. Case in point. During the same summer vacation she spent with him earlier this year, she claims she saw a gun with another kid at the park. She also went to summer school and made the gesture of pointing a gun to a student's head and that was what ultimately led to her expulsion in addition to other acts.

3. We are also worried about the damage that will be done to her as a kid when living there for a year and what it will entail for us correct that.

My question to this forum is regarding the legal aspects according to Minnesota Law. Will he gain any legal advantage if we let her stay with him for an extended period of time?
Would we still have legal right to have her when we feel the time is right?

It is hard for her mother and I to let her go knowing what we know however we need to take action before she gets older and this becomes much harder.
 


Silverplum

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota

My 10 year old daughter (in this case daughter of my girlfriend) has been misbehaving a lot lately and being extremely disrespectful.
Latest thing is that she feels her father can and will treat her better than her mother and I do.

I met this single mother who was taking care of her daughter 5 years ago and since that time, we have both been pretty much the sole provider for our daughter. At the time and up till now her mother has had sole custody of the child and the father has visitation rights for 1 Saturday a month. Not wanting to deprive the child of her father, we have been pretty lax about visitation and let him come and pick up his daughter whenever he wants which varies between being absent for a couple of months then wanting her for two weekends or so in another month. This man as multiple kids with different women and only attempts to see his kids when it suits him. We have been very generous over the years and have not collected a single penny from him in child support nor have we ever asked him to provide for his daughter. He did have to pay child support at one point before her mother and I met but as the story goes, he asked her to let him off as he could not afford it and she agreed to.

The problem is the little girl misbehaves and when she is disciplined, she says I am not her father and have no right to discipline her. She has been rude and disrespectful and some of the things she says leads us to believe that he says things to her when she visits with him that contributes to her behavior. She has behaved the same way at school in the past that resulted in her getting expelled from one school at such a young age. We've also taken the necessary steps by taking her to see a psychiatrist but she is old enough to be manipulative and only says what she thinks the psychiatrist wants to hear.

On the other hand her father pretends to be oblivious to what is going on claims that she never behaves that way at his home and that we are manufacturing things about his daughter even though I have taped her actions on numerous occasions. Strangely enough we let her spend last summer with him and within 3 weeks she was crying and begging to come back home. We had also enrolled her in summer schools and the same father called up complaining that he cannot handle her as she kept getting in trouble and was eventually also expelled from the summer program. Eventually we had to pick her up in the middle of summer as she did not want to be there and he was only too happy to hand her over.

In order to teach her a lesson her mother and I are debating the pros and cons of sending her to live with her father for 1 year as he claims he can take care of her better than we can.
We are almost certain that he will make a mess of it and she will finally see her father for who he really is but:

1. We are concerned of the legal aspects involved. At this time we do have full custody however we are concerned whether having her live with him will give him enough legal ground to try to fight us in court for custody of the kid.

2. He also lives in a seedy neighborhood where there has been a lot of violence and we really would not want our child to be exposed to such. Case in point. During the same summer vacation she spent with him earlier this year, she claims she saw a gun with another kid at the park. She also went to summer school and made the gesture of pointing a gun to a student's head and that was what ultimately led to her expulsion in addition to other acts.

3. We are also worried about the damage that will be done to her as a kid when living there for a year and what it will entail for us correct that.

My question to this forum is regarding the legal aspects according to Minnesota Law. Will he gain any legal advantage if we let her stay with him for an extended period of time?
Would we still have legal right to have her when we feel the time is right?

It is hard for her mother and I to let her go knowing what we know however we need to take action before she gets older and this becomes much harder.
This is NOT "your" daughter. Everything you wrote is overstepping. You are NOT legally involved. Sheesh, you're only Mom's (latest) boyfriend. :rolleyes:

Tell Mom she can post here, if she chooses.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota

My 10 year old daughter (in this case daughter of my girlfriend) has been misbehaving a lot lately and being extremely disrespectful.
Latest thing is that she feels her father can and will treat her better than her mother and I do.

I met this single mother who was taking care of her daughter 5 years ago and since that time, we have both been pretty much the sole provider for our daughter. At the time and up till now her mother has had sole custody of the child and the father has visitation rights for 1 Saturday a month. Not wanting to deprive the child of her father, we have been pretty lax about visitation and let him come and pick up his daughter whenever he wants which varies between being absent for a couple of months then wanting her for two weekends or so in another month. This man as multiple kids with different women and only attempts to see his kids when it suits him. We have been very generous over the years and have not collected a single penny from him in child support nor have we ever asked him to provide for his daughter. He did have to pay child support at one point before her mother and I met but as the story goes, he asked her to let him off as he could not afford it and she agreed to.

The problem is the little girl misbehaves and when she is disciplined, she says I am not her father and have no right to discipline her. She has been rude and disrespectful and some of the things she says leads us to believe that he says things to her when she visits with him that contributes to her behavior. She has behaved the same way at school in the past that resulted in her getting expelled from one school at such a young age. We've also taken the necessary steps by taking her to see a psychiatrist but she is old enough to be manipulative and only says what she thinks the psychiatrist wants to hear.

On the other hand her father pretends to be oblivious to what is going on claims that she never behaves that way at his home and that we are manufacturing things about his daughter even though I have taped her actions on numerous occasions. Strangely enough we let her spend last summer with him and within 3 weeks she was crying and begging to come back home. We had also enrolled her in summer schools and the same father called up complaining that he cannot handle her as she kept getting in trouble and was eventually also expelled from the summer program. Eventually we had to pick her up in the middle of summer as she did not want to be there and he was only too happy to hand her over.

In order to teach her a lesson her mother and I are debating the pros and cons of sending her to live with her father for 1 year as he claims he can take care of her better than we can.
We are almost certain that he will make a mess of it and she will finally see her father for who he really is but:

1. We are concerned of the legal aspects involved. At this time we do have full custody however we are concerned whether having her live with him will give him enough legal ground to try to fight us in court for custody of the kid.

2. He also lives in a seedy neighborhood where there has been a lot of violence and we really would not want our child to be exposed to such. Case in point. During the same summer vacation she spent with him earlier this year, she claims she saw a gun with another kid at the park. She also went to summer school and made the gesture of pointing a gun to a student's head and that was what ultimately led to her expulsion in addition to other acts.

3. We are also worried about the damage that will be done to her as a kid when living there for a year and what it will entail for us correct that.

My question to this forum is regarding the legal aspects according to Minnesota Law. Will he gain any legal advantage if we let her stay with him for an extended period of time?
Would we still have legal right to have her when we feel the time is right?

It is hard for her mother and I to let her go knowing what we know however we need to take action before she gets older and this becomes much harder.
Wow. Just. WOW. This is NOT your child and your girlfriend needs to place a slap offside your head for the total obnoxious way you treat HER child. If I were Dad I would punch you in the jaw.
 

Dluvr22

Junior Member
This is NOT "your" daughter. Everything you wrote is overstepping. You are NOT legally involved. Sheesh, you're only Mom's (latest) boyfriend. :rolleyes:

Tell Mom she can post here, if she chooses.
Thank you for you insight.
I care about this kid as much as any parent does. I may not be her biological father but I have fed her and clothed her for and cared for her for the last 5 years as my own and yes I am marrying her mother.
I am not pushing an agenda for myself nor am I writing this just for my own gain. We have both sat and talked about it and I was researching options when I ran across this forum and decided to ask for help.
I didn't realize that not being the father means I cannot ask for help.
I really did not expect this to be the kind of response I would get. Please be a bit more constructive and help if you can.
Thank you.
 
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Silverplum

Senior Member
Thank you for you insight.
I care about this kid as much as any parent does. I may not be her biological father but I have fed her and clothed her for and cared for her for the last 5 years as my own and yes I am marrying her mother.
I am not pushing an agenda for myself nor am I writing this just for my own gain. We have both sat and talked about it and I was researching options when I ran across this forum and decided to ask for help.
I really did not expect this to be the kind of response I would get. Please be a bit more constructive and help if you can.
Thank you.
It's not constructive to allow you to continue your fantasy unchallenged.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Thank you for you insight.
I care about this kid as much as any parent does. I may not be her biological father but I have fed her and clothed her for and cared for her for the last 5 years as my own and yes I am marrying her mother.
I am not pushing an agenda for myself nor am I writing this just for my own gain. We have both sat and talked about it and I was researching options when I ran across this forum and decided to ask for help.
I really did not expect this to be the kind of response I would get. Please be a bit more constructive and help if you can.
Thank you.
More constructive? You've been told this is none of your business. What else do you want? Sheesh!
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Thank you for you insight.
I care about this kid as much as any parent does. I may not be her biological father but I have fed her and clothed her for and cared for her for the last 5 years as my own and yes I am marrying her mother.
I am not pushing an agenda for myself nor am I writing this on my own gain. We have both sat and talked about it and I was researching options when I ran across this forum and decided to ask for help.
I really did not expect this to be the kind of response I would get. Please be a bit more constructive and help if you can.
Thank you.
If I were Dad I would ask YOU, LEGAL STRANGER, to back off. YOU, LEGAL STRANGER, are nonconstructive to the co-parenting relationship and the parenting relationship.
 

Dluvr22

Junior Member
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.

I think you and others are misreading the situation.
I am trying to support the mother.
I am not making decisions for her . I asked for advise to share with her.
When I say discipline the kid, I mean to discipline her the way any good step parent would.
I have never laid a hand on this child nor do I intend to.
I know the concept of offering the carrot to achieve results which is what I try to do by giving her the options to do good to get reward and what but instead when she cannot have her way she says things like " You aren't my Dad so you cant tell me what to do." or My Dad told me that you I should never have to listen to you.

You folks are not in my home and have no idea what is going on or how many times I have had to have the police come over because a 10 year old is breaking things, kicking in her bedroom door and generally being disrespectful.
Anyway this is where I take my leave as it seems I am getting ridiculed rather than help.
Thank you all
 
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Just Blue

Senior Member
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.
The word is "Advice".

But I will ADVISE you that it take a real man or WOMAN to know how to be a step-parent. How to help the situation rather that take over. And that is what you are trying to do. For good or for ill the FATHER is the FATHER. The MOTHER job is to assist FATHER and HIS child to get along.

Your "job" is to support mom. :)
 

CSO286

Senior Member
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.
You are on a website looking for legal advice. Legally, a father is
(a) married to the mother of the child at or near the time the child was conceived or born;
(b) He and the child’s mother attempted to marry prior to the child’s birth, but the marriage is or could be invalid;
(c) He and the child’s mother attempted to marry after the child’s birth and one of the following is also true:
(1) He signed a written paper saying he was father and the paper is filed with vital statistics;
(2) He is named on the child’s birth record (birth certificate);
(3) He promised, in writing, to pay child support or a court ordered him to pay child support.

(d) He and the child live together as father and child and he says he is the child’s father
and:
(1) there is a paternity adjudication; or
(2) he and the child’s mother have signed a “recognition of parentage” which has the effect of adjudication of paternity

(e) There is a signed declaration of parentage on file with the state registrar of vital statistics. This is for children born prior to August 1, 1995; father must also be adjudicated


(snip misc irrelevant definitions as they apply to ICW children)

Or the father may prove he is the father by proving his adoption of the child.

(from: http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/groups/county_access/documents/pub/dhs16_167725.pdf info based on MN statute, however most state have similar statute with possible different words for the Recognition of Parentage or adjudication, or other state specific terminology, or procedure--i.e. step of legitimization.)

What the bottom line is is this: You ARE NOT this child's father, even if you have inserted yourself into the role. You aren't even in a position to adopt this child, since you are not married to the child's mother.

Here, at a website that gives LEGAL advice, we will use LEGAL definitions. You are not the child's LEGAL father. Her father does exist, and he has rights. Whether or not he chooses to exercise them doesn't mean he stops being her father.
 
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Silverplum

Senior Member
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.

I think you and others are misreading the situation.
I am trying to support the mother.
I am not making decisions for her . I asked for advise to share with her.
When I say discipline the kid, I mean to discipline her the way any good step parent would.
I have never laid a hand on this child nor do I intend to.
I know the concept of offering the carrot to achieve results which is what I try to do by giving her the options to do good to get reward and what but instead when she cannot have her way she says things like " You aren't my Dad so you cant tell me what to do." or My Dad told me that you I should never have to listen to you.

You folks are not in my home and have no idea what is going on or how many times I have had to have the police come over because a 10 year old is breaking things, kicking in her bedroom door and generally being disrespectful.
Anyway this is where I take my leave as it seems I am getting ridiculed rather than help.
Thank you all
Alrighty, then.

:cool:
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.

I think you and others are misreading the situation.
I am trying to support the mother.
I am not making decisions for her . I asked for advise to share with her.
When I say discipline the kid, I mean to discipline her the way any good step parent would.
I have never laid a hand on this child nor do I intend to.
I know the concept of offering the carrot to achieve results which is what I try to do by giving her the options to do good to get reward and what but instead when she cannot have her way she says things like " You aren't my Dad so you cant tell me what to do." or My Dad told me that you I should never have to listen to you.

You folks are not in my home and have no idea what is going on or how many times I have had to have the police come over because a 10 year old is breaking things, kicking in her bedroom door and generally being disrespectful.
Anyway this is where I take my leave as it seems I am getting ridiculed rather than help.
Thank you all
You are not a stepfather. You criticize the child's father and yet your girlfriend -- not a legal relationship but just someone with whom you are shacking up and sleeping with -- apparently chose this man to impregnate her. And the father has time with his child. Seriously, this is a legal site. You are LEGALLY no one!
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Thank you all for a fine advise.
Maybe I should go out there and have 12 kids by different women and show up once in 5 months or promise the kid I'll come and pick them up and never show up because I have the right to do so
No wonder society is what it is.
Any fool can sire a child.
It take a real man to be a father to one.

I think you and others are misreading the situation.
I am trying to support the mother.
I am not making decisions for her . I asked for advise to share with her.
When I say discipline the kid, I mean to discipline her the way any good step parent would.
I have never laid a hand on this child nor do I intend to.
I know the concept of offering the carrot to achieve results which is what I try to do by giving her the options to do good to get reward and what but instead when she cannot have her way she says things like " You aren't my Dad so you cant tell me what to do." or My Dad told me that you I should never have to listen to you.

You folks are not in my home and have no idea what is going on or how many times I have had to have the police come over because a 10 year old is breaking things, kicking in her bedroom door and generally being disrespectful.
Anyway this is where I take my leave as it seems I am getting ridiculed rather than help.
Thank you all
Again. The word is "AdviCe". I can adviSe you but you should ask for adviCe. K?

And as to the rest? Sounds like Mom should be caring for HER child and you are not helping that emotionally broken child.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
You folks are not in my home and have no idea what is going on or how many times I have had to have the police come over because a 10 year old is breaking things, kicking in her bedroom door and generally being disrespectful.
Anyway this is where I take my leave as it seems I am getting ridiculed rather than help.
Thank you all
If you can't manage a disrespectful 10-year-old girl without calling the police, no advice we can give you is going to help.

TD
 

CSO286

Senior Member
And in Minnesota??? (Where I live and spent several years working in social services and child support.)

If Mom decides to allow the child to live with Dad for "a year", then Dad will have every right to petition the courts for a legal change in custody based on the change in the child's residence. And it would be likely to be granted once the child has lived with Dad long enough to establish status quo.

Mom will not be able to file for a change of custody after a year, just because she agreed to "only a year." Grounds for filing would include a significant change of circumstances in the child's life, not mom's wishes or whims.

Or yours.
 
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