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Was this illegal?

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Bvjt23

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota
My car stalled less than a mile away from my home, my dad dropped my husband and his car off where my car had stalled. My husband fixed my car, the problem is my husbands license is suspended and we had my car and my dads car to get home. I am 8months pregnant and had my 5 year old disabled son with me, I was tired and frustrated and wanted the cars home safe, so stupidly my husband was going to follow me in my dad's car as he drove mine. We were stopped at stop lights when a police officer whipped around and got behind my husband, as we turned the cop pulled him over, the car is in my name so I pulled over as well. The cop got the info from my husband, and I assumed he would be ticketed and the car would be probably impounded, but was shocked when they started to search my husband, not just pat him down, but search him, all the while my son crying because he doesn't get what was happening to his dad. I got out of my car and asked what wad going on and with no answer the cop began to search my vehicle. I told him I did not consent to the search, but he proceeded anyways. Besides the driving with a suspended license we are law abiding, tax paying citizens, there was nothing illegal in my car or on my husband, and I feel very violated and insulted by the way this police officer treated us and our belongings. In no way am I disputing the ticket for the suspended license or the car being towed, but I just feel like my privacy was invaded and my son was traumatized for a search that shouldn't have happened. Just wondering if this is a legal search?
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota
... my dad dropped my husband and his car off where my car had stalled. My husband fixed my car ... and we had my car and my dads car to get home. ...
Did your dad walk home after dropping your husband and the car off?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
The "reason" given was a cracked license plate? The plate is completely visible so not sure why it was an issue.
do you have front plates in your state? If not, why would the cop whip around behind your husband?


Are the police familiar with your husband such they might know his license was suspended and recognize him?
 

Bvjt23

Junior Member
do you have front plates in your state? If not, why would the cop whip around behind your husband?


Are the police familiar with your husband such they might know his license was suspended and recognize him?
We do have front license plates, and actually it is the front one he claims was cracked, my husband is not known by the police. His license is suspended because he was unaware that the insurance was lapsed on his car, I was under the impression he was going to insure his vehicle through his work so only renewed mine, he was pulled over for speeding and was cited for driving without insurance. Granted he should never have been driving, I can try to justify it by saying it was under a mile, that I am about to give birth, we had our 5 year old, etc but the reality of the situation is he isn't able to drive, but the whole situation with this particular officer was sketchy. I really am uncomfortable with which this situation was handled.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
You or your husband can complain to the employing police agency should you/he choose. Other than that, there is no real recourse.
 

Bvjt23

Junior Member
You or your husband can complain to the employing police agency should you/he choose. Other than that, there is no real recourse.
I was thinking of that, I am not so concerned with a recourse as I am with if this is something police officers are able to do, I am not worried that they would ever find anything illegal, I am worried that a civil servant who is a stranger to me has the authority to dig a around my personal possesions and go as far as to stick there hands in my pockets for something like driving with a suspended license. It was embarrassing, insulting and again violating.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I was thinking of that, I am not so concerned with a recourse as I am with if this is something police officers are able to do, I am not worried that they would ever find anything illegal, I am worried that a civil servant who is a stranger to me has the authority to dig a around my personal possesions and go as far as to stick there hands in my pockets for something like driving with a suspended license. It was embarrassing, insulting and again violating.
As we have no way to know why the officer made the stop or conducted a search, all we can do is guess and provide some possible scenarios.

First, it takes very little to justify a detention. A detention (traffic stop) requires only the reasonable belief that criminal activity is "afoot" - the officer need not even be correct, in the end, only that he has articulable cause to believe that a crime (or traffic offense) has been committed or that criminal activity is occurring.

Second, once he makes the stop, he can demand a driver's license and other required documentation (in most states that includes registration and insurance - your state might vary from this). Once the officer discovered his license was suspended, it is very likely your husband was subject to arrest.

Now, the officer could have conducted the search based upon consent, articulable probable cause to believe that contraband was on his person, or, based upon a decision to make an arrest (even if to be released with a citation) and the search would have been conducted as incident to the arrest. The search of the car could also have been done through consent, articulable probable cause to believe that contraband was present in the car, or, tat he was searching the car as part of a pre-storage inventory of the vehicle (as it was likely subject to impound as a result of his suspended license).

While it's possible that the local police are in the habit of pulling over random people for no reason (unlikely) and thus risking their freedom and their careers, it's not likely. So, I doubt the stop was made without some good reason. The search of your husband's person and the car could have been for any number of reasons. I can come up with possible scenarios that make it perfectly lawful, and others that make it UN-lawful. And, unless you intend to sue the police, you may never find out these reasons. So, all that might be left is to speak with a supervisor as part of a request for clarification (and hope they will provide you with something) or as part of a personnel complaint.

Ultimately, the answer to your thread query: "Was this illegal?" the answer is, "Maybe."
 

Bvjt23

Junior Member
As we have no way to know why the officer made the stop or conducted a search, all we can do is guess and provide some possible scenarios.

First, it takes very little to justify a detention. A detention (traffic stop) requires only the reasonable belief that criminal activity is "afoot" - the officer need not even be correct, in the end, only that he has articulable cause to believe that a crime (or traffic offense) has been committed or that criminal activity is occurring.

Second, once he makes the stop, he can demand a driver's license and other required documentation (in most states that includes registration and insurance - your state might vary from this). Once the officer discovered his license was suspended, it is very likely your husband was subject to arrest.

Now, the officer could have conducted the search based upon consent, articulable probable cause to believe that contraband was on his person, or, based upon a decision to make an arrest (even if to be released with a citation) and the search would have been conducted as incident to the arrest. The search of the car could also have been done through consent, articulable probable cause to believe that contraband was present in the car, or, tat he was searching the car as part of a pre-storage inventory of the vehicle (as it was likely subject to impound as a result of his suspended license).

While it's possible that the local police are in the habit of pulling over random people for no reason (unlikely) and thus risking their freedom and their careers, it's not likely. So, I doubt the stop was made without some good reason. The search of your husband's person and the car could have been for any number of reasons. I can come up with possible scenarios that make it perfectly lawful, and others that make it UN-lawful. And, unless you intend to sue the police, you may never find out these reasons. So, all that might be left is to speak with a supervisor as part of a request for clarification (and hope they will provide you with something) or as part of a personnel complaint.

Ultimately, the answer to your thread query: "Was this illegal?" the answer is, "Maybe."
Thank you for answer, I guess my understanding of when it is ok to have your vehicle searched is if:

1. a “search incident to arrest,” which allows a search of the immediate vicinity of the driver (in other words, where he can reach inside the car) when the police have grounds to place the driver under arrest

2. an inventory search, which is allowed when the police arrest a driver and impound the car (to list the items in the car in order to avoid civil liability for the loss or damage of the car owner’s property), and

3. a probable cause search, which is allowed where the police have a reasonable suspicion that a weapon or evidence of the crime for which they stopped the driver may be found (this search would include a pat-down of the driver for weapons or contraband).

The officer searched more than just the vicinity of the driver, so it wasn't a search incident to arrest. My understanding of when an inventory search is to be performed is when the driver is arrested and the car is impounded, not only was the driver not arrested, but I am the owner of the car and I had not committed a crime and I was at the scene of the traffic stop, so my understanding is that an inventory search in this situation would not be allowed. And my husband was pulled over for a cracked license plate and was cited a driving after suspension, i find it hard to believe the officer had a reasonable suspicion that there was evidence of the crimes for which he was cited in the car or that he had a weapon. This search happened on a busy road in the city I grew up in which was embarrassing, my car was a complete mess so I was also embarrassed for the cop to be going through it, and my son witnessed what probably what appeared to be another man bullying his dad and ripping through his things. I happily pay taxes, I do my best to obey the law, and I respect officers and their jobs, but my Constitutional rights are important to me, and it feels like they were infringed on. The real question I guess I have is if my interpretation of when a vehicle or person can be searched is correct.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
As I said, none of us know what the officers knew or believed, and why they did what they did. It was probably perfectly lawful, but, even if it wasn't, you may never know short of compelling a response as part of a civil suit or seeking an explanation through an inquiry at the agency or a personnel complaint. We can guess all day long ... I can articulate circumstances that make it all perfectly lawful, and circumstances that make a grievous violation of civil rights. So, we can continue to GUESS all day long, or,m you can move ahead with an inquiry or a complaint to the agency. Your (or, rather, your husband's) call.
 

Bvjt23

Junior Member
As I said, none of us know what the officers knew or believed, and why they did what they did. It was probably perfectly lawful, but, even if it wasn't, you may never know short of compelling a response as part of a civil suit or seeking an explanation through an inquiry at the agency or a personnel complaint. We can guess all day long ... I can articulate circumstances that make it all perfectly lawful, and circumstances that make a grievous violation of civil rights. So, we can continue to GUESS all day long, or,m you can move ahead with an inquiry or a complaint to the agency. Your (or, rather, your husband's) call.
Thank you, I did ask for his card which has an email, and I may ask him directly. I don't want to file a complaint even if it was not an allowable search, but I want him to know that it has bothered me all day. I have never been treated that way, and to have it happen in front of my son and under the already stressful day we had it made it that much worse. The reasoning he stated he was allowed to search it is driving after suspension which us a misdemenor crime allows him to search both vehicle and person, which is not my understanding of an allowable search.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Understand your rights were not violated. Your husband had possession and control of the vehicle so all actions taken were due to and based on the actions allowed based on the interaction with your husband. Your rights of ownership are not superior to the rights to act based on the incident at hand.

If you want to be pissed be pissed at your husband as that is the ultimate reason the police did what they did.
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
Understand your rights were not violated. Your husband had possession and control of the vehicle so all actions taken were due to and based on the actions allowed based on the interaction with your husband. Your rights of ownership are not superior to the rights to act based on the incident at hand.

If you want to be pissed be pissed at your husband as that is the ultimate reason the police did what they did.
She needs to be pissed off at herself too since she allowed her husband to drive. I think she's lucky she didn't get cited for allowing an unlicensed driver to operate a vehicle she owns.
 

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