Wells Fargo does not recognize CONSERVATORS

[bamboozled]

Connecticut: I posted this issue before, and am now back with newer information. My mother, who has dementia, uses a walker (with help) and now is on oxygen, had me VOLUNTARILY appointed as her conservator, as she became unable to write a check, balance her checkbook, or pay bills. I have taken this job on with no reimbursement or pay. I would like to save her from having an attorney appointed, plus, I live the closest and I take her to all her appointments.
Anyway, WELLS FARGO is refusing to acknowledge me as her conservator. Her accounts are in TRUST and my mother is the TRUSTEE of her own accounts. She has spoken with the financial adviser at WF, but he insists they have their "own rules" and they will not speak with me at all. I have to sit next to my mom, write out on a paper what she needs to say, because her dementia is that bad. (BTW: I am also a customer of WF, but maybe not for long)
I called back PROBATE. They said that the paperwork they gave me is sufficient and that WELLS FARGO is incorrect. This is not helping at all. I was able to liquidate one annuity by writing a script for her to ask for it as her credit union, that does acknowledge me, the funds were almost gone and she has doctor ordered 24/7 care that is expensive. (I have a family to, so I have to go back and forth)
The paperwork came, she signed the document and my husband and I signed as "witnesses". 6 WEEKS later, and the annuity was still not EFT to her credit union. So, I sat with her, and she called them every week for 3 weeks. They said: "it will be in by this Friday" (they said that for 2 weeks) The next week, the secretary CANDI, said: "Tim is on vacation". She called back the next week. Tim says: "I sent it in last week". She calls me, then I tell her, no, the money is not in your account. "She calls back: Tim says: "I will send it now". Then she finally gets her OWN MONEY TO LIVE ON.

What the hell is this? Her accounts at all banks (even the credit union) are in TRUST. She is the TRUSTEE on her accounts. The credit union recognizes me as the conservator and set her accounts up with my name on her account as conservator.
Now, the Probate Judge says I can be named successor trustee, if I am bonded for $300,000.00 that my mother has to pay. He did not order me to be bonded to be her conservator.
The bond company rejected me, because my sister CONTESTED me as being the conservator, only because I was told to "cut her off", as my mother was paying her rent (at age 54) while she sits on her ass on the beach in JUPITER, Florida. The comments were: "not through the fault of the applicant, but this company does not want to be involved in this family's issues."
The audit I handed into PROBATE was perfect. It also showed I took no fee.
My background check was fine and I own a home and have assets well over $400,000.00. The bond company is more concerned with my greedy, demented sister, than with the fact that I have been her "POA", and now conservator and have a clean credit history, background check, but because my sister is an idiot, and was obnoxious on 3 occasions @ Probate, in front of the Judge (who almost had her removed) the bond company will not bond me.
Any ideas on what to do next? What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[tranquility]

I'm not sure Wells Fargo isn't correct. YOU are not the trustee, even though you act in the trustee's stead. You may be able to have mom declared incompetent, whereupon the successor trustee could act. The court will probably appoint an attorney to oversee mom's interests.

Even then, it depends on how the trust is written. If it is a "death or resignation" trust, there is a big problem. Hopefully it is a "death, resignation or incapacity" of the trustee before the successor trustee takes over.

On a side note, Wells Fargo is horrible in cooperating with those who have clearly legal relationships they must follow. When the issues are more complex, such as here, you have a problem.

 

[bamboozled]

Thanks "Senior member"

My mother has been declared incompetent by a geriatric psychiatrist. The Judge is ignoring it though. I have to sit with her and write out what she has to say to WELLS FARGO, which is ridiculous.
I would not be able to "steal" any money. It is all in an educational trust for the grandchildren, BUT, she has rights to the money BEFORE it goes to the grandchildren. (this is in her WILL)
She over gifted to my sister since 2002. (9/24/10 was when mom was deemed incompetent) She actually wrote checks for my sisters $1,000.00 a month rent and gave her $10,750.00 every January for her birthday. She bought her an $18,000.00 car and paid her first, last and security deposit on a very pricey apartment ON THE BEACH in Jupiter, FLA. Now that she is "cut-off" she is ranting and raving for MONEY and demanding to get a copy of my mothers WILL. I was also told NOT to give it to her.
Now, "Mom", may have enough money to last for 5 more years according to the court appointed attorneys. They told me NOT to write my sister any more checks nor (2) of the grandchildren as their father (my deceased brother) left them a hefty trust fund for education. How many people need to have money in a trust for 2 of 3 grandchildren?
If WF does not recognize me as conservator why does the credit union? Those accounts are also in TRUST.
Thanks for your great advice and knowledge. This process has been very expensive, slow and frustrating~

 

[tranquility]

My mother has been declared incompetent by a geriatric psychiatrist.

Is that what the trust requires to have the successor trustee take over?

If WF does not recognize me as conservator why does the credit union? Those accounts are also in TRUST.

Being a conservator does not give you the right to act as trustee. The credit union may be in error.

 

[bamboozled]

conservator/trustee

Really? Thanks for telling me. They sat down with me and made copies of my conservator paperwork. The credit union branch manager never asked for trustee information. So, if my mother is still on the account as TRUSTEE and my name is added next to hers (not taking it over) that makes me unable to pay her bills?
I have been paying her bills since last June. Then I was her POA, and then WELLS FARGO would talk to me and allow me to move money.
Now that she is unable to speak a word without assistance, I am suddenly not allowed to act as fiduciary?
The conservator paperwork clearly states that I can act as fiduciary for stocks, bonds, mutual funds, any ESTATE issues. The accounts have always been in TRUST.
I am not understanding why as my capacity gets stronger, through PROBATE, I am less able to do anything.
She paid over $17,000.00 in attorneys fees to get me to this position. Go figure~
Thanks for your answer.

 

[tranquility]

Well, it appears I am wrong in Connecticut law. See Falvey v. Zurolo (Superior Court of Connecticut,
December 23, 2009) section VI "Successor Trustee" at:
http://www.ctlivingtrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Zurulo.pdf

The trustee had a conservator appointed and the probate court gave the conservator specific power to appoint a successor trustee. The holding on the issue was: (Emphasis mine)

The statute allows the Probate Court to construe the
meaning of a trust, but it does not authorize the court to
allow a conservator to appoint a successor trustee in
contravention of the terms of the trust. Moreover,
although Mirto's appointment as conservator gives him
the ability to act in Rose Zurolo's stead as trustee of the
trust, this does not change the fact that a successor trustee
is in place. Since there is no evidence that Rose Zurulo
has either died or resigned, Mirto is now effectively the
trustee of the Venturo Zurolo revocable trust and can
exercise all of the powers of that role. The Venturo
Zurolo revocable trust, however, does not allow for the
trustee to appoint a new successor trustee.

You CAN handle all of mom's affairs, including being trustee in Connecticut.

But, Wells Fargo, as I said:

is horrible in cooperating with those who have clearly legal relationships they must follow. When the issues are more complex, such as here, you have a problem.

Have you jumped through all the hoops they've asked you to jump through?

 

[bamboozled]

Trustee/conservator

Thank you very much for your knowledgeable answer and for not being rude.

My attorney agrees with you, but cannot get WELLS FARGO to recognize me as conservator? He sent them letters telling them they are wrong, but they insist they "have their own rules".

My mother had: a court-appointed attorney, a GAL, and my greedy sister also hired 2 others, that stopped showing up when the Judge asked why they were there. (clearly a waste of money to have 4 attorneys for one woman) All these attorneys and none of them addressed that her accounts were in TRUST.

$17,000.00 BUCKS in attorneys fees, and still there is no person in charge of liquidating any annuities that she has with WELLS FARGO.

I really appreciate you citing the Connecticut cases. You went "above and beyond", and for that, I am grateful. Have a great evening~

 

[tranquility]

It happens all the time in California. We are often executors for (former) clients. Even with the letters testamentary, Wells Fargo (and others) require more and different. California has an statutory attorney fees provision if they don't follow the law, they still want more. We long ago found it to be cheaper to jump through all the hoops over litigation.

Jump.

 

[bamboozled]

Jumping through the hoops~

I have jumped through every hoop and am still jumping! This is not over yet. I am now going to be "bonded" in order to satisfy the requirements of the Probate Judge and WELLS FARGO. My mother has to pay it though which pisses me off. She keeps getting stuck with all these stinking bills, just to have the wishes in her WILL adhered to.

I read the entire case you cited. I disagree with one point. If you are appointed as conservator in Connecticut, the "conserved party" pays the attorneys fees of the conservator. If it is "denied" then the person has to pay their own attorney fees. My appointment was voluntary.

The case cited was an exception, as the Judge decided orally, that they had to pay their own fees.

My attorney already told me that due to all the work I have proven to be doing, I can "pay myself", a reasonable fee as conservator. I asked him what "reasonable" meant, and he said $200.00-$250.00 a month. After all, gas is over $4.00 a gallon, I go to all doctors appointments and hair appointments, and have all of her files in a fireproof file cabinet. I met with her tax guy for 2 hours, and spent 1/2 a day a the cardiologist, then getting all kinds of tests. She is now on oxygen, as of yesterday. Still, I have decided to do it for free. She is my mother and she is not doing well. I think she has been exploited enough through the system.

I was surprised to read that the court appointed a "third party" due to the discourse between sisters. My sister contested LOUDLY my conservator appointment, but the Judge looked over my mothers WILL, and I am clearly written in to be her conservator. He has to abide by her wishes, especially if she is sitting next to him and he is questioning just her, without any prompting.

You gave the most factual answer I have ever had on this site! Thank you!